We are often the architects of our own demise. We choose fast fashion over slow, cheap and convenient over niche and artisanal, and we perpetuate the challenges of a fairer distribution of wealth.
Today, I’m offering up an Idea and a call to action to all of you. Build and patronise a new amazon for the artisans. Make it easier for voices like my next guest, Antara Chirpal, to have her products reach the mass market in a more direct way, without having to spend more than 50% of the retail price on ads and middlemen.
Antara Chirpal is the founder of Maya Weaves. This is a social enterprise with an artisan cluster of more than 200 grassroot artisans for handmade fabrics, Teracotta and hand embroidery.
The work unit is located in the interior of West Bengal. Maya weaves does handspun, handmade cotton, khadi, mul, linen, silk, Tussar and Jamdani stoles, sarees, and much more.
Antara is an ex investment banker (with American Express Bank) turned social entrepreneur. She is championing the cause of responsible consumption and production. From the UNs 17 Sustainable Development Goals.
Today she shares with us her experience in a world of grassroot artisans: the joys and the struggles.
Katherine Ann Byam 0:03
I started this podcast to give voices like the one you are about to hear today the opportunity to be heard. These are the voices of hardworking skilled people who trade in art and the craft that is no longer known to many. Fast cheap fashion has created livelihood for some, riches for few, and left the artisans with a much smaller piece of the pie. Let's get into this.
Antara Chirpal 0:15
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me over Katherine. It's lovely to hear from you.
Katherine Ann Byam 0:10
It's really a pleasure for me to give voices like you an opportunity to be heard. And this is the point of this podcast really.
So I wanted to get into why hand looming is such an essential part of Bengal culture?
Antara Chirpal 0:30
Handloom is an essential part of Bengal culture mostly because of the ecological conditions. The soil by the bay of Bengal side in the whole belt is very rich and the mineral specifically they give a certain kind of cotton because of which the weaving as a practice as a livelihood started in that belt. And I think, its earliest record of sari weaving in the district goes back to the 15th century and after that, it went to the 16th to 18th century of Mughal patronage and the British patronage. So, firstly ecological conditions, soil and also logistics plays a very important part because they could be exported well from there.
And surprisingly that kind of cotton is not found anywhere else. The kind of cotton which is grown in those beds. And during the partition of weavers who were in Bangladesh, they actually switched over to this side of India and they continued.
Katherine Ann Byam 1:58
It's interesting. And so essentially all of the people have a sort of tradition, sort of ancestry of weavers.
Antara Chirpal 2:06
Exactly, If you go to those belts, they have a lot of them because they have a tradition of weaving or hand handicraft which is kantha which is very typical here. So even those who are not selling, they were making it for their daughter's wedding, for the birth of their children, for giving away on occasions. So, it's not only a handloom and handicraft which is popularly known as kantha embroidery all over and it's beautiful.
Katherine Ann Byam 3:02
And so, what took you away from Bengal at first? You told me that you had an opportunity to to move and to travel and build your career in another area. What took you away from Bengal and then what made you return?
Antara Chirpal 3:17
Actually, my father was an electrical engineer. We are Bengali. I'm born in Bangal and we are Bengalis basically. My father was an engineer and his job required us to move all over India. So I basically did my schooling outside. And after my graduation, my post graduation, my master's, I'm feeling I did something. After that, as luck would have it, (as I have said, I was an ex-investment banker in American Express Bank and Amex had only four to five branches at that time in India) I got a call from the biggest branch, the central branch which is in Delhi. And so there was no looking back, no thinking overall.
So that was a good corporate life which was calling me and so I just jumped onto it. And I had been an investment banker and it went very well. I had a lot of promotions back to back and a lot of increments of everything. But then after a little while, I used to travel back to Kolkata, Bengal to meet my parents and all my relatives who are all there. But when I came back, I really could see the difference in livelihood first of all. There is a remarkable difference in everything in the you know the way people live, the way people act, and in everything. What could I say? I mean, there was a cultural shock for me.
And also I thought I started having some identity which I never liked, which I never bothered about when I was in Bengal because I was in Bengal with all the Bengalis. (So in order to cover nation ) Maybe in order to give a Bengali identity to myself, I started leaning over to this handloom and hand embroidery for which I could feel I can connect with it. I could feel that this is the way I can bridge a gap and give me some identity as a Bengali and not as a corporate investment banker. And by that time, I could realise I could feel my love for Bengal because I had started to miss Bengal, staying away from it for so long all by myself because at that point I was staying alone and working. And I don't think of leaving it at all.
Katherine Ann Byam 6:57
I congratulate you and your success. It's really tremendous to listen to your journey because I know how many people look at the big cities when we're growing up. "Yeah, I think this is what we want." But when we actually have it, we realise there's more to this. And there's a lot that we took for granted perhaps.
Antara Chirpal 7:39
So today I feel proud to show my products and to tell you about my things. I often talk about handicrafts and handloom people. I love to speak Bengali because very few people speak Bengali in Delhi. So I believe it just took on from there I guess.
Katherine Ann Byam 8:02
It's quite remarkable actually how much success you've had. And I wanted to touch a little bit on some of the types of buyers that you have. So tell us about some of the calibre of buyers who come to your product.
Antara Chirpal 8:18
I started with one of the A-listed designers, the designers whom we used to see on screen at Fashion Week and I approached one of them at the very beginning and I had a thunderous response. They keep telling me they love me. They called for an appointment for the very next day. And that day, I was sitting with one of the stalwarts of Indian fashion industry. Actually my learning from that side is how to conduct business. [They would tell me the kind of the sponsor monitor cases,] Let me tell you something about this person I remember. Once I was talking about the mulmul saree, he said "See mulmul is a good concept, but as a saree, you should add some weight by the selvedge. Why? Because if you use a mulmul saree, it gets between the legs while walking and women don't like that. So you should have something which adds weight at the edge at the selvedge." So that's what we did.
Katherine Ann Byam
And so tell me a little bit about the middlemen. Do you have any middlemen in your current business and if not why?
Antara Chirpal
Oh, I don't have any middleman. As you know I come from an artisan background. Maya Weaves is actually founded by my aunt and myself and my aunt is a national awardee artisan. And I have been there since my birth. These weavers that we have, they have been with us for the last 15 to 20 years. My dad and my mother passed away. My dad is in Bengal. I mean they come and they stay in our house. They cook and they're like a family to us. You know we are there for their marriage and every occasion so they're like a family.
And so there's no middleman involved. But the middleman are these men who are genuinely ex master weavers, they give employment to these weavers throughout the year. Whether there is a high demand or a low demand, they make sure that their looms are going right. So I went to this master Weaver. He called me and I went there because I just wanted to learn something and I could see no looms. I said, "Well, what happened to your looms?" He said, "No, my weavers are coming." And the moment the weavers came in, they were kind of looking at God. When they were looking at the master weaver, they stood up.
And when this person took a seat like a king, they were sitting only. So, they treat him like a god and actually that opened my eyes. Because why do they love him although he is no longer weaving and he is a middleman, why do they love him so much? Because they gave them employment. They give yarns to these weavers. Whenever they say they need money, these are the first point of contact they go-to for any medical or any emergencies. So that is one side of looking at it.
Also at the same time, I know so many, not only I would say people or groups or say corporates, they work as a middleman and you know, they charge a bomb as commission. Right. So they hike up the prices. See I give him something for 10 rupees and by the time it reaches you, it becomes like maybe 50 X or 60 x. And trust me, I'm not exaggerating when I say 60 x.
Katherine Ann Byam 18:12
Now that's what I thought would be the case you know, that actually the price the loomer receives is so far from the price the purchaser or the consumer buys it at.
Antara Chirpal 18:27
And lastly, what happens is that ultimately, the weaver or the or the end artisan who was doing it suffers. One middleman adds up to more middlemen. That is the problem. Ultimately there is a small middleman, and the semi-big, and the big, and the huge one. So it adds up to that. So the concept of the middleman, I don't know how to take it away because at the end of the day, the grassroots artisan, they need a market approach. They need people to market their things. But there are two kinds of middlemen I would say. One is the good one, good cop and bad cop kind of thing.
Katherine Ann Byam 20:41
I completely understand that and I think it switches us on to the last question I want to ask you which is the challenges that people still face. Even when you have been able to find a situation where you have a middleman who is for the people, so someone who's responsible and considering (Right!) the balance of a time, what are still some of the challenges that people face in terms of being able to sustain this business?
Antara Chirpal 22:14
So, first is decreasing demand because of huge expenses not because of the product but because of the middlemen. The prices increase and people lose interest. So that is one because of the inflated prices. And second is working capital or financial problems. For example, if I have to do inventory and I want to do stockpiling for myself, I need a huge capital. So, that is a problem.
So in fact, a lack of data awareness about all the funding agencies at the government that has a lot of schemes for us and for the weavers and also for all the artisans. There's very little knowledge about how to go about it like knowing what documents needed. So actually people move on to these micro lending houses. If you go to the villages, there are like microlending agencies who lend to these weavers, artisans at a very high interest. And they collect weekly interest from them.
They go door-to-door to collect the interest. So ultimately, people fall for these agencies, but they have high interest rates and their work ethics are also not that good. So working capital, I would say, is the second biggest problem. And then they have a lack of knowledge about latest designs or the correct market demands, which is another. Maybe I know what is good in my area or in Bengal.
So people don't even know what is selling outside Bengal, forget about abroad. Within India also the nice thing is in Bombay it's a different taste, in Delhi different. So, there is a lack of knowledge about these market demands, all of these demands and then the new generation is not interested I think I have seen. First, a handloom handmade product takes a lot of patience and a lot of days.
And as I have said, there's employment. So they look for more kinds of regular employment even if it is less. I know a lot of people in my area, they are doing the labour work of a carpenter or a house cleaner or a sweeper or something. I have spoken to a lot of them. They come from the weavers family but they have left weaving and they have come to the towns and cities which give them better employment. So that is another problem.
Katherine Ann Byam 25:44
And when you say better, what's better about it? Is it just the consistency?
Consistency - that's it! Yeah, that is what people want. I work for 30 days, and on the 31st day or on the 32nd day, I have my salary. Right. So that is the only thing; whereas for handloom or handmade, people make it but maybe orders are not always coming in. So what they make might not sell, and they might sell it for a much lesser price because they have to bargain, make demand, and make people understand the value of it. They have to sell at a lesser price.
And then I would say some doing for bulk exports. I know a lot of people have very little info about exports and they're very scared of export rules and regulation and the technicalities or the bureaucracy of export. So many of you might want to buy things from them directly. But these people are very sceptical about exports going in. They would rather sell it to somebody who's standing in front of them at a lower price than get a good price or a good deal or a correct deal I would say. Now it's really fascinating. I'm so glad you came and you shared this story with us. I guess the one thing I'd like you to share with everyone is where you see the industry going and how all of us can support it.
Antara Chirpal 28:17
The handloom thing is a backbone of I would say of any growing world I guess ultimately. I know my daughter goes to school and they are taught at an early stage how to save the planet, how to save water, and how to do things which I would say honestly, I was never taught when I was in school.
Katherine Ann Byam 28:42
Yes.
Antara Chirpal 28:43
So the world is going towards that and in slow fashion, the sustainable use of all the resources is one of the important things that is going to define how our kids are going to live their lives. Handloom or handicraft is the backbone of all these because you know handloom apparels are essential for us. Apparels and food that we eat are essential to our lives. I have seen also after this pandemic, I've seen a thunderous response. People are loving it. People are wanting it.
I know a lot of companies which are 100% using machine powerloom products. They want to work with hand looms. They are kind of sampling with handloom products and people are aware. People are getting close. Everyday, I get so many requests on my Instagram, although I am not very active on Instagram. I don't have many followers on Instagram, but people that I love show they want it in their lives. The fabrics they want, sometimes they want stools, or scarves. They want to make garments.
They want to use handloom handicrafts all the way. I would say I think it's a very good time. And it's a booming time and I would request this awareness that is already there because of the pandemic, I hope it doesn't die away once it is all over and done and dusted. People should not forget that it can come again. And we should not think of temporary plugins. Instead, we should think of something which is a long haul. And we should use sustainable products or sustainable resources.
And this awareness should be there. You know some countries I think have never connected before pandemic or connected with you before pandemic but the kind of response I have gotten from you and a couple of more people. So this enthusiasm, this response should be there. We at the grassroots level are always there. But we need people like you to hold us up, to make our voices heard by people and to let them know about our stories, I would say.
Katherine Ann Byam 31:27
Thank you so much for sharing that. I think it's such an important story to share. And I love what you're doing and the commitment that you have. Congratulations on all your success. And I will definitely share about my weaves as we go through the year.
Antara Chirpal 31:41
Thank you so very much. I must give it to you for doing such commendable work. I know you are having a lot of things to handle but then this is totally just applaudable.
Katherine Ann Byam 31:56
Thank you very much.