My next guest is Katy Davies from Piece of Cake Coaching. She's a strategy coach, and before coaching, she actually started her own cake business, KatyBakey. Katy's natural ability to break things down and explain them in simple terms means she can help her clients cut through the overwhelm, gain clarity in their business and take action to get the life that they want. Using her business MOT, she works with her clients to sort through the tangle of ideas in their heads and helps them create a clear and actionable plan to achieve their goals. solving any problems that pop up along the way, helping them get organised, manage their time more efficiently, and understanding the online social media world and how to market their business is part of Katy's expertise.
Katherine Ann Byam 0:03
Katy, welcome to Where Ideas Launch.
Katy Davies 1:12
Hello. It's lovely to be here.
Katherine Ann Byam 1:14
Wonderful to have you. And you know, in this season, I've been digging into things like the idea to CEO and how green businesses can make their start, and then grow and scale. And now you're coming in to talk about the growth part, which I'm really excited about. Because I think a lot of people aren't sure about their businesses. They step tentatively into it, they use it as a side gig, they're not sure they're ever gonna replace their income. But I know that you were able to successfully replace your income with your cake business even before you started your coaching business. So it's a pleasure to have you on the show. And it's a pleasure to get into that journey that you've had as well.
Katy Davies 1:52
Yeah, I can't wait to tell you.
Katherine Ann Byam 1:54
So tell me how you got started, Katy. Share with all listeners how you decided to move from where you will tell us where you were before, and how you leverage the skills that you had to use in your cake business.
Katy Davies 2:07
Okay, so where I was, my journey is a little bit convoluted. And I never really knew exactly what I wanted to do. Like a lot of people, we don't really necessarily have a calling and our higher purpose always and we don't know what it is right away. So I did a physics degree at uni, I lacked that. And I didn't really know what to do. So I got a job as a receptionist in a design agency marketing agency in the West End. And I quickly became an office manager and I worked through all of the roles in the business, HR, Finance, invoicing contracts. And I did all of the different roles within the agency. And I went there for 12 years and had different roles throughout the whole time I was there. And eventually, by the time I left, I was upstairs in the studio. And I was a project manager and I ended up doing marketing for the agency themselves. Because typically, they were lousy agency and they were terrible at doing their marketing. So 12 years, I did all sorts of things and learn all areas of the business. And I became really frustrated. So what I had on the agency was kind of run by the finance director, the creative director. And when I worked on the back end, I kind of was under the direction of the finance director. When I moved to the front, I kind of had these two bosses, and they couldn't decide what to do. And I found it really frustrating. And I just kind of thought, you know what, I can do a better job of running a company myself as you do.
And baking was my hobby. I've been doing it for about a year. And I've got really into it where even when it's your hobby, there are lots of rules around food safety. The council has to come down, inspect your kitchen and give you a rating. And so even just doing it as a hobby became quite complicated, and I was putting a lot of effort into it. So I decided to just go for it and I quit my job. And I launched headlong into being a cake maker. And obviously, my growth was helped by the fact that I had that background. I had that background in the agency for 12 years. So I knew how to do my invoicing, I knew how to do my accounts and I have to do my marketing as well as doing the cakes. So that was eight years ago. And my journey through that got me into the entrepreneur world which is very different to the corporate world.
So all of a sudden you have all your friends also run their own business. And because of my background, I ended up helping people. And they'd be like, how did you do this? How did you get to do this, and I don't really understand this. And a lot of entrepreneurs, know what they do, but they don't know how to do the rest of it. So I kind of naturally started coaching people. And eventually, it was my own coach, who said to me, You need to start charging people for this. So about two and a half, three years ago, I actually started the coaching alongside the cakes. And obviously, with the pandemic last year, the focus switched. There weren't any weddings, and I've kind of been doing this much more over the last year with the coaching.
Katherine Ann Byam 5:38
What do you think were the sort of key ingredients that allowed you to have the growth that you had because I'm guessing that you didn't start in the first month replacing your corporate income?
Katy Davies 5:53
No, definitely not. So I mean, I was quite sensible, I made sure I had some off-season savings behind me. And that obviously gave me a bit of a time deadline, which is a bit of a motivator is always good here. But so I think having the background that I had did help with my growth, obviously, because I knew all the whole area of my business. So if you don't know the whole layout of your business, don't be afraid to get help and ask, but I think, especially with the cakes, and with any business, the same with the coaching is, so knowing your audience, and being intentional with your marketing, and because if you know getting your branding, right, getting that kind of thing, right from the start, you might not you might find your way into it, but try and bear it in mind, I think it is critical to attracting the right kind of client, because using the cake example, and you know, there's a whole, are you making birthday cakes? Are you making cream cakes? Are you making cupcakes, you're making wedding cakes? like who are you actually like, Okay, if you just say cake, it's too vague. Who are you actually trying to attract? And then that will filter down to everything you do. So the images of cakes that might be out in the wild are going to attract the people back again, who are going to buy that.
So if you put lots of pictures of tiny cupcakes out, people are going to want cupcakes, if you put lots of stuff out about wedding cakes, people are gonna have a wedding cake. So I think it is really critical to understand your branding, who are you pitching to, who is your audience is your ideal client because you need to grow an audience to be able to kind of grow your business. And you need to make sure you're attracting the people to the audience, to your business, that value your products and services. And by few and having a large audience of the wrong people is not going to help you. It's like it is a numbers game. But you can have the wrong numbers like. You can have millions of people on Instagram following you. But if they're not following you because they want to buy from you, it's not gonna work. So if you have a small committed audience of those right people, then that is going to make it much easier for you to put your efforts in the right place and if you know who you want to attract. Are you going to be doing it on Instagram, or you're going to be doing it on Facebook, or you're going to be doing it on LinkedIn can help you make those decisions early on so that you're not spreading yourself too thin. And you're kind of not putting all of your sufferings on press and you're giving your audience the content that you want. So I think really knowing who is your audience? Who are you trying to attract? Who are you trying to sell to really does help?
Katherine Ann Byam 8:46
That's always a challenge as well because we tend to start with "well, this product can serve anyone, so we want everyone in the audience." And there's an interesting thing in what you were saying I was listening. And one thing that came to my mind is about the whole idea of the product suite. So there's one thing about knowing your audience. So for example, you have a big target for weddings. But once you're finished with the wedding, there are other things, but even before the wedding, there are other things. So it could be a bridal shower, it could be a kids party, it could you know, and I think it's so important to understand your product suite. So tell me a bit about how you develop to that in your business as well.
Katy Davies 9:25
So the product suite so obviously, cake baking is a kind of might be a slightly different business model, but you don't start making five-tier wedding cakes, you start making a single-tier birthday cake, and so you end up with a product suite that actually might kind of drop some of them along the way. But I had a very clear client journey established once I got onto the wedding cake so my client journey my Instagram strategy is very much my grid either wedding cakes and that attracts my client and they order wedding cake but like I say.
Then on my stories I show all my other products suite, so they might like say order bridal Hindu cake and then obviously they might do a christening cake and then they might do... because once someone's following you, they don't need another wedding cake. So all my stories I show all the other cakes I do and then they become my repeat customers and they then yeah, as they grow they have the first birthday cake the christening cake, their parents' cakes, their husband's cakes their wife's case. And so yeah, I have a very clear journey for them through my products to keep them as a client you can't always do that depends on your business. But it's good to know what that's going to be so that you can be intentional with it.
Katherine Ann Byam 10:53
This is the second time we've we've touched on social media. So let's get on the visibility part because I think that this is one of the biggest bits of the journey that people initially feel uncomfortable with. You know, people who are doing the do in their business often struggle with being the face of the business also. So tell me about your tips on visibility.
Katy Davies 11:17
So yeah, being visible is kind of key. You have to do it. There are different ways of doing it. And so yeah, you have to put yourself in a position to sell. Now my cake business is very different to my coaching business. So again, if you're a product-based business, or if you're a service-based business, you might have different ways of doing it, I managed to hide behind the cakes in my cake business, I didn't have to put myself front and centre because I was selling a product and so my Instagram grid is full of beautiful pictures of cakes and that kind of does the hydrate. Then obviously they do meet me in the consultation and it's all about personality and making that connection to sell the service as such. But with my coaching, I have to be, "I'm the coach. It's me." so there are pictures in my face all over my quote on Instagram, which took me a while to get over. But if you're not comfortable doing something and you can do baby steps, but depending on what your product is or your services, you know you're putting you in the centre of your business will make a big difference.
But again, it's once you know what you're selling and who you're serving to get your message out there is key and being consistent. So that's I think a mistake a lot of people make is they're not consistent because they've not really necessarily thought it through and they're trying to do it Instagram is trying to Facebook. They're trying to do this, trying to do that. And if you're starting off and you can't afford to outsource while you're in a period of the grind you aren't going to potentially do it all yourself so be consistent pick the things that you know you're that's why it's so important to know who you're selling to and then pick the things and just be consistent with it and get yourself out there.
You're trying to build the know the like and the trust so you want them to know who you are, I know what you do. You want them to like what you do and you want to like you well and you want them to trust that you're going to do a good job and then they will buy from you and so being visible is kind of the only way to do that really you need to get that out there and don't be afraid to get help so if you're not a natural salesperson then you might need to get some help with your sales copy because if you don't sell you won't have any sales is like all the pieces do need to be there for it to work as a whole but you need to ask for this out as well so you need to go out and be visible show what you're doing show up, be consistent, get everyone used to you, what you do need to ask for the sound as well.
So you need to pop that in there and I did of course you know. I wasn't great at selling. It was something I wasn't confident in. I was really lucky. I would manage to convert my consultations to a sale without asking for the sale. But I had to work so much harder to have done all the work before we got there so they're almost ready to buy. But you know, if you answer you need to just yeah, put yourself in a position to sell.
Katherine Ann Byam 14:40
That's so important. And I think the next element of this as you step it's almost it's the other way around even you first have to build the audience and the network. So there's a piece on social media, but then there's also the networking and I think when you're just getting started, networking is probably even more critical at If you agree with that, tell me your thoughts on this.
Katy Davies 15:02
So networking was something I didn't really know what it was to be honest, not in the same format that I do now. So obviously working in an office, there were meetings, and people would come and do things. And I know my boss would take people out for lunch, you know, which is the kind of networking there is the specifically structured networking meetings, but there is also organic networking. So building a network of people connections here will help you in your business. So obviously, in the wedding industry, building a network of florists, and bridal shops, and wedding planners and other people who, you know, depending on which network you're in, that they refer to as a kind of introduces. So instead of constantly trying to find the end client, like a million clients, you make a connection with a florist with a bridal person with somebody else in your industry, who has the same clients as you is adjacent to you, is not your direct competitor.
And then instead of so I was very lucky, I met and worked with a florist very early on in my cake business, who would constantly refer me her clients, so they will go for a consultation with her, and then that she'd say to them, "do you need cake?" and they'll be all and she'd pass in my detail. So you can do that organically. But obviously, if we go to networking meetings, it's a quicker way to kind of find these people. And to do that, there are lots of different ways to do it. I did it very early on. The first things I did, when I started my cake business with I went out looking for a network to join, and I went along as a guest, I went along as a visitor, I kind of scope them all out because they're all very different. So there are some we meet every week, some were every month.
They all have a different demographic of who their members are, there are some industry-specific ones. So if your industry is very niche, like there are specifically wedding networks, or there's the more generic. We have one person from each industry, and the key to networking properly is to do your research. And to go out there and find out what one's around what ones will work for you. And think about how much of your marketing do you want it to take off. So I did join one where I went every week. There’s one you go month there at the moment there is obviously there's the FSB, which has kind of no commitment at all. And you can just go wherever you want. And so there isn't really big brains and different networks and things. But the key to them is to do your research, pick the right ones, and know why you're going and what you want the outcome to be when you actually get there. So the biggest mistake that I see people make networking is they pick something to go to, and that's it, they stop there. That's all they do. They're going to go. And that's it.
They don't think about it anymore. So if you can find out beforehand as much as you can, who else is going to make yourself a target Hit List of Who do you want to be introduced to? Who do you want to speak to? And find out for getting on? What do you do when you do speak to that person? What do you want that outcome to be? Do you want to arrange a meeting with them? Do you want to just exchange email addresses and you'll connect with them later? Again, be ready for your audience. So always know your audience for the networking as well. Because depending on what kind of networking you're going to, people have a different connection strategy. So in the wedding world, I was always swapping Instagram accounts at the FSB, everyone's swapping LinkedIn account. So it's kind of knowing what you want out of it. And also, all of these different networking places. You need to find out how long you're going to get to speak. Some of them give you 30 seconds. Some of them give you a minute, you might have five minutes. So how are you going to introduce yourself? What are you actually going to say if I say "Hi, I'm Katy, I'm a business coach."
Katy Davies 19:16
And that's it. If it's kind of forgettable, it's not really gonna have an impact on anybody. They're gonna meet a million business coaches. So if I said something like, Hi, I'm Katy, I'm your strategy coach, I help you get unstuck in your head. I have a free Facebook group where you can go and download my free guide. Five Ways to Up Your Instagram engagement that might get their attention more and tell them something, give them something. What do you want them to do? If you give someone an instruction weirdly, they do tend to follow it. So if you kind of says to them, follow me on Instagram, find me on LinkedIn, this is where you can find me.
This is where I want you to go. This is what I can do for you rather than just being on for guests. Because of these networking events, you do need to kind of stand out. And that is a mistake that I see a lot of people do is they're too vague with their messaging. They have an intent have, they haven't gone with an intention of what they want to get out of it and what they want the people to do, what action do you want them to take? And how do you want to connect them and something else that when everything's on zoom, a lot of things on zoom and the chat function is great?
So while you're saying all this, be prepared, have all your links have your email address or your LinkedIn. And like, as you're saying it, tell them to say, I'm going to pop the links in my in the chat. And then it encourages people to actually connect again, you're giving them an instruction, you know, go there, go to my group, join my group. Let's see you there. So yeah, networking, I really Yes, Katherine, 100%, behind the networking, but be intentional with it, do your research. And don't be vague with it. Be unforgettable. If you're going to spend a few hours out of your day going, make sure you get something out of it.
Katherine Ann Byam 21:08
Yeah. And you know, we're going to slightly move again and pivot a bit, because I want to get into some of the other things that I've talked about on this idea to see your journey which is about automation. So, I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of advancements in technology now. And actually, when I got into the business, it was about helping small businesses and medium-sized businesses adapt and adopt more technology in their systems and ways of doing things. So let's, let's talk a little bit about systems that help you scale.
Katy Davies 21:40
One of the key things about setting up systems in automation, I mean, you need some kind of system, even if it's a folder when I very first started now I had an Excel spreadsheet, and I would put my invoices in and I would print them all out. And I'd use that like my kind of workflow guide, you need some kind of system, but as you grow, that's not going to work. It needs to be automated. And what I've done with my coaching business very much, which I didn't do as much with my cake business was I've implemented things before I need them. So I think that is if you know, you want to grow, okay, you can cope at the moment. But then if everything you're doing the networking, being visible that knowing your audience, and so at some point, you're gonna get an influx of sales and inquiries. And can your systems cope with it?
How do you like you have to kind of plot out a client journey, how does someone enter your world? And what happens to them? And what part of that process can you automate? So with the coaching business, I very much have my contracts automated, just been linking up my calendar, so they automatically create the zoom meeting and emails everyone and so you can take hours, think about what takes you time what is a repetitive process? What can you do, and most of it is to do with the communication between yourself and the clients the buying process, the signing contracts, depending on how bespoke your services are. So in my cake business, I can't automate it nearly as much because every cake is bespoke, it's different is handmade, everything's different.
Whereas the coaching business is a lot more formulaic, so I can easily just like they buy a product, they buy services all done automatically. But the biggest thing is to do it early. Don't wait till you're too busy, because then you'll be too busy. And you won't be able to actually spend the time putting in the systems and the processes. So it's kind of admin-based, it's communication-based, it's sending things out, it's the purchasing cycle. It's just plotting out your client journey. And I don't know if you want me to go into the systems I use but it's just trying to take out those things that take up your time.
Katherine Ann Byam 24:06
Do you think that these things are easy to learn? is there one particular piece of automation that you would recommend that people tackle first?
Katy Davies 24:17
What you said by easy to learn, so I find with my coaching clients, it varies. Some people just can't get their head around it and there are tech VAs out there. And if you get to the position where you are really kind of getting to the point where you are growing, outsource it. If it's gonna take you an entire day to do something, outsource it. Get a tech VA and but the other thing is people are so willing to help. I know so many people who pop a question in a Facebook group and "I'm trying to connect my zoom in the gym... it's not working. People will help you so don't be scared to ask.
And I find it easy so I'm lucky. Tech naturally doesn't faze me. I tend to get to work quite easily. So I mean that things that I think having a good invoicing system having your account set up properly, because as obviously, the bigger picture, you need to know your numbers, you need to know how much money you're making in your business. And if you're sitting there every month spending hours doing your accounts, there's not a really good use of time. So I mean, the system that I find really good with coaching is Dubsado.
I think it was designed for creativity specifically, but you can have all your contacts in there. And it's all automated workflows. So you know, you can, send them the invoice, they pay the invoice, it sends them the contract, they sign the contract, then they pick a date, and it creates the zoom link, and it sends them the meeting and it just does all their stuff when you're not constantly going, Well, if they've signed it, yeah, all I need to send them the next day all they have done this bit. And so I think setting up a calendar so people can meet you easily. It's great, have a good accounting system. And this kind of sending people contracts and things if that's part of your business, they're really key.
Katherine Ann Byam 26:23
Really good tips, probably the last area I want to dabble into is time management. Because you have the queen of this in all of the entrepreneurs that I've met, you will probably be the person that makes time simplest, can you share with us some key tips on managing our time as entrepreneurs
Katy Davies 26:43
Time management. So that was something that I think comes from the fact that I was a cake maker first. You will probably not find a cake maker who is not good at time management because of the nature of the business. Yeah, you've got a wedding cake to deliver at three o'clock on Saturday, you have to be there, you have to get it done, you have to know exactly when you're doing what when and get all the bits of the cake ready. So most cake makers are pretty much on top of their time. And but especially with my coaching clients as well, you can teach people all the things in the world, you can tell it. But if you don't have time to implement that, you don't have time to live your life, it's not going to work. So time management is my favourite topic. We'll talk about this for another whole podcast. But I will try and do it as concisely as quickly as I can.
Essentially, time management is different to having a list. So at least is all the things that need to be done. But there's no specific timeframe in which they're getting done, or the order they're getting done. And so if you have a list of a day or list for the week, you will never reset start at the top. And you work your way down and takes as long as it takes. And you don't ever get some stuff in the bottom and the list goes the next day and the next day, the next step in the next day. And you're kind of constantly never getting through things and projects aren't getting started and things aren't getting done.
So the concept of time management, I mean, you have to make it work for your business there isn't one-size-fits-all. But as an overview, a starting point, you would have that list, you still need the list, you obviously still need to know the things that need to get done. But the way I kind of does it is obviously I have my diary. And I have all the appointments and all the non-negotiables and you put your whole life into it. It's not just working. So if you have a family, if you have children, you know they need to be at school, they need to be picked up, there's a party, you need to go to the gym, you're going to the dentist or having your hair done. You know, you have appointments, you have life.
Katy Davies 29:00
So I have to explain without showing it but basically, a time booking sheet for the week, which is just all the days across the chart Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, through Sunday Times down the side, you know, whatever time you need, start 6 am or 9 am all the way through to bedtime. It's just the kind of chart and you block out the times that you're going to do things so everything I encourage all of my clients to build is down from your strategy. So you would have your overall strategy of the year, the month, the week the things that need to be done things in your diary. But then, every Sunday or beginning of the week, you filter this down into your time blocking sheet for the week. And you take all of those appointments, you take all of your non-negotiables and you put them into the week, and then you basically see what's left.
What time have you got left? And then you know, make sure you eat, make sure you drink make sure you have time off make sure that you are doing all those things, it's not just about work as entrepreneurs. We need to really take care of ourselves as well. And you kind of see how much time you got left. And then that's why that list kind of comes in. And you look at the list. And that's the kind of like working on the business thing. So you've already put in all the things that are the business.
If you're making a cake or something, you work it backwards, fill all that in, but then you fill in all the gaps with the so if you need to write a blog, instead of just having, okay Monday, or this week, I'm going to write a blog, you fill in a gap at 10 o'clock on Monday, I'm writing the blog for an hour, and you stick to it, and you work on it for that hour. And if you don't finish it, you've started it, you're moving projects forward.
And if you work well-doing things all in one go, and you need to finish the block, then maybe you find a gap, that's two hours. But the point of the time blocking is to get everything in place, and move projects forward and keep working on things. And I don't know about you. But if you've got a deadline, you pretty much get it done. Like if I've got a load of emails I haven't answered, and I need to leave the house in an hour. All of a Sunday, I managed to answer all those emails in that one hour, when otherwise I could have quite happily sat there for the entire morning faffing about doing things. So there are different ways to do it work to your strengths.
You need to understand your own personality. If you put yourself under too much pressure, is that gonna be counterproductive? If you work well under pressure, having these time blocks and these things, okay, I'm going to share my social media, I've got an hour to get as much done as I can. Piggybacking things as I say, if there's something you procrastinate about if you know you've got a meeting, or you know, you're leaving the house, give yourself like the half an hour beforehand to do the thing that you try not to do, and guarantee you'll get it done quicker. But it's kind of that concept of having a time and a space for everything and reviewing it. And also, then you can really see realistically, can you get all this stuff done?
Once you've blocked it all out. If you physically cannot fit everything in in the week, then there's a problem and you can see why stuff isn't getting done. And then you can like make the executive decision. Do I need to start outsourcing things we need to get up earlier? Do I need to actually move this meeting is there something I'm doing which has taken me three hours a week, that's when the automation comes in, can I find a quick way so it's, it's kind of using that time productively and having that bigger picture of what you're actually doing. Because if we're really honest about it, we can waste a lot of time faffing about and he gets over decision fatigue as well. If you're having a bit of a naff day, and you're tired, not sure when you get up in the morning, it's all planned out for you, you know, what you've got to do.
And you can kind of get going rather than spending 20 minutes thinking what am I gonna do? There are all these things, which am I going to do? It's all kind of mapped out for you. So let's say "Normally, I would spend a whole podcast just talking about time management, I think. Did I miss anything? You probably talked about this so many times.
Katherine Ann Byam 33:15
I think you have and look, the thing about this is people are trying to build and scale and that's the time when time becomes really under pressure. So I think it's so essential to either get the automation really slick, get a team but even with the team, even with all of that, you still need to be completely in command of what your available time really is. So that's really essential. And the more I guess the more developed and, and mature your businesses, the more let's say you have routine and set structures around things. So for example, I only do interviews on Tuesdays and Thursdays because the rest of my days are blocked for other things, you know, and you kind of get into a rhythm with those things. So this is really, really, really good. Do let everyone know where they can find you.
Katy Davies 34:10
I'm in Piece of Cake Coaching, and I have a Facebook group, which gives all free advice and tips and things which is called The Missing Piece. You just kind of Google Piece of Cake Coaching on Facebook, you can find me in my group, The Missing Piece.