Russ Avery is an eco entrepreneur, sustainable marketer, and CEO of purpose-driven brand consultancy Avery & Brown. With over a decade’s experience of marketing sustainable brands, including six years in-house at two large corporate sustainability consultancies, Russ not only has a deep knowledge of sustainable and ethical marketing practices, but also of the sustainable and regenerative business movement.
Quote: Is sustainability becoming obsolete?
The global scientific consensus and the latest IPCC report confirms that we are way past the point of needing businesses to be 'sustainable'. Instead, we need businesses to be regenerative - whereby they give back far more to society and the planet than they take.
I envision a world in which every business is regenerative - that's the world I want to live in.
__________________________________________
Avery & Brown is a specialist brand consultancy and marketing agency which puts people and planet on par with profit. They work solely with ambitious, sustainability-focused (and increasingly regenerative) businesses which share their bold vision for a better world.
They currently partner with clients in the UK, Europe and North America. Their team has 30 plus years’ of combined brand, marketing and design experience, and they have been immersed in the world of sustainability since 2010.
Katherine Ann Byam 0:00
So what role does marketing have to play in some of the inequality and health challenges that we currently face in your view? And how can we do better?
Russ Avery 0:08
Yeah, so there's absolutely no doubt about it. Historically, marketing and advertising has been a massive part of the problem. There's just no two ways about it. It sounds crazy when you actually take a step back to think about it, doesn't it that we will actively buy things and consume things which we know are bad for us. But of course, we've seen a cool advert or a great marketing campaign for it, and it makes us desire that thing. So 100% marketing has played a massive role in where it gets interesting for me is how it now can and must be part of the solution. And I mentioned earlier about how we can achieve that by working on positive campaigns which are honest and authentic and which you know, don't greenwash, to educate people.
Katherine Ann Byam 1:00
This is season five, the great debates of our times, Season Five will be centred around the great debates. And we will be comparing and contrasting different viewpoints on various topics that are consuming the public discourse at present. The reason I've decided to take this approach is because, we or at least many of us, are losing the skill of debate. And I think this is an essential skill for us all to practice once more. I don't see how we get to the point of saving the world and saving our planet, if we don't know how to discuss our differences. I also think that the solution to most of our challenges is somewhere in the spectrum of views but never at either extreme. I will be working with guests to curate the content and discuss beforehand, I will understand their positions, their areas of genius, and navigate my questions around that so that the conversation is challenging and stimulating without being combative. I hope you enjoy Season Five of Where Ideas launch; The Sustainable Innovation Podcast. For us, Avery is an eco entrepreneur, sustainable marketer and CEO of purpose driven brand consultancy Avery & Brown, with over a decade of experience, marketing sustainable brands, including six years in house at two large corporate sustainability consultancies. Ross not only has a deep knowledge of sustainable and ethical marketing practices, but also of the sustainable and regenerative business movement as a whole. Russ, welcome to Where iIdeas Launch.
Russ Avery 2:28
Thank you so much for having me, Katherine. It's great to be here. And I'm a big fan of the podcast. So it's a pleasure to be in such good company.
Katherine Ann Byam 2:36
That's awesome. I'm always excited to hear that people have listened to my podcast. I don't know why. I know that the statistics are great, but every time someone tells me I get excited again. So thank you for sharing that. We've been connected for some time now on LinkedIn, I discovered your work through Howard Gunstock at Carbon Capture and your content is extremely engaging. I don't know if you remember this, but you posted a video of your daughter singing a song from Keane since then I've updated my Spotify playlist with Keanes music, so, I'd genuinely forgotten how good they are. So thank you for that.
Russ Avery 3:08
You're welcome. Yeah, that was actually a really nice surprise for me too, because my daughter recorded that with my dad, her granddad accompanying her on the guitar. So it was a lovely surprise when my dad sent me that video. And it was during cop 26 last year. So I just thought it was a perfect song to be used as a soundtrack for a quick video. Thanks in large part to that great line in the song. This could be the end of everything. Yeah. And so I just put it together. And yeah, it's it was quite nice piece.
Katherine Ann Byam 3:36
It was magic. It was it was internet magic. Absolutely. So you mentioned on your LinkedIn profile that you've been involved in the sustainability transition since 2010. So I'd love to know your why. And also, if you could tell us a bit about your statement that sustainability is out and regeneration is in?
Russ Avery 3:54
Sure. So to answer the first part of the question for me, it was all about discovering my why and my purpose before I even really knew what, what those times meant. It was 2009 and I'd been doing various temp jobs for two years since graduating. I graduated with a degree in languages and I had no idea what I wanted to do for a career as most of my friends didn't either. It's pretty common, I guess. So I'd been a runner at a film production company, I'd worked for a small charity, I did some admin and archiving for a law firm. I even did a year at Deloitte in forensic accounting. So it's definitely safe to say that I was jumping around from job to job with no drive or job satisfaction. You know, it was a terrible job market. It was a global financial crisis. And none of my friends were getting jobs that they wanted to do, either they were all recruitment consultants or estate agents so yeah, in 2009. I really after doing two years of these temp jobs, I really took a step back and thought about what I actually cared about. And I kept coming back to wildlife and nature, which I've been passionate about since as long as I can remember as a boy growing up on the west coast of Scotland, and that was it. I made up my mind, I had nothing to show for it or prove in terms of academic qualifications in you name it geography, biology, sustainability, whatever it was. So I went back to university to study for a degree in Natural and Environmental Sciences. And I started applying for jobs at the same time while I was there. And that's when I managed to get my foot in the door at a small ocean conservation nonprofit called Sea Web in 2010. And the rest is history. So that's how I kind of discovered my why I really went back to what I was passionate about, and decided that I had to make a career in that in some way and get my foot in the door. As for posts that I've written about sustainability kind of being out and regeneration being in I haven't written any of those to be deliberately controversial. They've all just been cases of publicly sharing, like what I'm thinking and publicly sharing the journey that we're on at Avery and Brown. So the term regenerative business has been around for years, but I'd never heard of it when I first shared it in early 2021 in a LinkedIn post, and perhaps unsurprisingly, loads of other people hadn't heard of it, either. So the post just seemed to really resonate. And in a nutshell, I'd written about how I didn't think that sustainable business was enough anymore. And that if we listen to the climate scientists, which of course we should do, it's way too late in the day for that, we don't just need businesses to be less bad, we need them to do more good. So for me, no matter what the academic definitions of regenerative business might be, mine was, and still is that we want to be a business which gives back more to society and the planet than it takes. And I think it's that simplicity of message which led to my original posts resonating with so many people.
Katherine Ann Byam 6:41
Yeah, that absolutely reminds me of net positive by Andrew Winston and Paul Polman, I don't know if you've read the book. But the book has just given me so much in terms of insight into how we need to be thinking, how all big businesses need to be thinking. And to be honest, most aren't there yet, many are trying and they're making progress, but most are not there yet. And that's really a concern, because it comes down to that bit of a conflict that I also have, like, as I'm in the process of returning to traditional work (we'll talk about that later) but as I think about the companies that I go to, and as I interview with companies, they're on such different spectrums of where they are, I know that they're all trying to be better, which is why there's a potential role for me. I wouldn't go back if I didn't see a role in potential. And I know that we all need to help even the companies that we don't necessarily like the ones we think of greenwashing, etc, we need to help them do better. But it's still difficult if, therefull heart isn't there. So I wonder if I have the capacity to do the change management I need to do. So maybe if you can give some insight as to why this topic has become so huge and why it's such an important thing for marketing at the moment.
Russ Avery 7:56
Absolutely. Yeah. So quite simply, I just think it's the greatest issue of our time. So the climate crisis, and the associated crises which accompany it, including ecological collapse and increasing social inequality are without a doubt the greatest challenges that humanity has ever faced, and they permeate through every facet of life and business. And that, of course, includes marketing. And the reason sustainability is such a big marketing issue is because of the huge impact marketing and advertising has on people. And you know, people are central to the problem and must absolutely be central to the solution. So what people read, watch and hear every day has a profound effect on the way they behave, the actions they take the way they spend their money, etc. So marketing plays a vital role in how people not only understand but also how they react to the many facets of sustainability, whether that be choosing to buy so called sustainable goods and services, and we'll come on to that later when I talk about greenwash, or where and how they invest their money, for example. And so on the notes of greenwash we couldn't have this chat without raising it. As sustainability has become more trendy, we've witnessed an increasing prevalence of greenwash and for those who might not know greenwash is when brands use false misleading or unsubstantiated claims in their marketing and advertising. And I would say greenwashing is mostly deliberate. But sometimes it can be accidental, which raises a really interesting point about climate education and carbon literacy and that sort of thing. Because it's sometimes the case of people simply not knowing the facts, or how to talk accurately about something to do with sustainability. And I think we'll we'll revisit that later as well. And interestingly, one of my most popular posts on LinkedIn this year was about that nuance of language. And it went something along the lines of; you know, please remember that there's a huge difference between saying something is good for the environment, and saying something is less harmful to the environment, because there seems to now be an increasing number of cases of brands saying the former, when what they really mean is the latter. So you know, anyone listening to this, think about whether your product or service is actually good for the environment, eg whereby it helps restore it to actively benefit in some way? Or is it just that it's less damaging to the environment than other similar options on the market? You know, it sounds like a small thing. But that actually is a big thing. And, you know, thankfully, advertising and marketing campaigns can be shut down now for their use of greenwash if it gets reported. And we can talk about that a bit later on. But yeah, that that important distinction can save you a lot of time, money and general bother. And I guess, yeah, that for me is why sustainability or regeneration, those kind of catchphrases are so important in terms of marketing, it's all about behaviour. And how 7 billion people on the planet are acting, behaving spending their money and ultimately taking action or not.
Katherine Ann Byam 10:57
It's interesting what you say, because, well, one of the facts is that not 7 billion people are looking at these marketing campaigns. In fact, it's roughly maybe two and a half, maybe 3 billion. The rest are way below the poverty line and can't afford any of this stuff. Which, which brings me to some interesting ethical questions that I that I'd like to run past you. So my first one is this entrepreneurship is psychologically associated with creating this game changing business, these massive business models that transform everything, products and services or hybrids, but earning well while doing it. And that tends to be the focus, becoming the next unicorn. 1 billion in revenue. You know, getting this great valuation tends to be the goal for many people starting big businesses, and even for small businesses. It's about you know, getting that seven figures, etc. In your view, should we encourage the continuation of this thinking because I feel as if it's broken from the rest of the sustainability conversation? I mean, there is this part about carbon, but there's also this part about the social good. What are your thoughts on that?
Russ Avery 12:03
Such a great question, Katherine. So, of course, this is just my opinion, based on my own desires and drivers in life. But I honestly can't think of anything much worse than having an overarching goal of like wanting to be a billionaire. This ridiculous kind of culture of billionaire hustle has spread like wildfire since the dawn of social media. Even though most of what we see on there is totally fake. You know, unfortunately, we live in a world where people will literally rent supercars for the day, so they can take loads of photos of themselves with it for their Instagram profile to make others think that they're far wealthier and successful in their definition of success than they actually are. And you know, if that's not utterly mad, I really don't know what it is. But where it gets interesting is if purpose driven entrepreneurs want to get wealthy and build big businesses so that they can increase the positive impacts that they can make to people on the planet. In other words, by building a regenerative business, right, that really excites me. And that's the camp that I definitely fall into, you know, I don't have big desires for Avery & Brown to grow super, super quickly so that we can make seven, eight figures. I want to grow, you know, funnily enough sustainably and slowly and the right way for us. But I think we need to talk about cases like Patagonia because it happened so recently, Yvon Chouinard, the founder of Patagonia is an absolute sustainable business pioneer, as we all know, but recently, he announced that Earth was becoming you know, the major kind of shareholder of Patagonia and that billions of dollars will be put to, hopefully good causes by protecting the Earth's last wild spaces, which he cares so passionately about. It's a real case study of growing a business. And you know, there are people who are quick to shout down Patagonia, by the way, you know, using synthetic materials in its, in their clothing and stuff, but we need to celebrate progress not perfection, because you know, what is perfection anyway, so it's a real case study of how you can grow a huge, huge business with insane profits, but actually do something amazing with those profits. So your average billionaire would probably use that money to buy their next luxury yachts and their private jet and another house, etc. But there is a different way and it is out there. And we're seeing examples of this now and that that has to excite me because you know, we have to stay optimistic about these things and, and hopeful so I know a lot of great purpose driven entrepreneurs out there who are currently running small businesses like ours, but you know, one day these could be the next Yvon Chouinard's, which is super exciting, and what they're gonna do with their profits really excites me because they'll be trying to contribute to towards the Sustainable Development Goals ultimately and trying to make the world a better place instead of buying luxury material goods, which are just feeding the problem.
Katherine Ann Byam 15:05
Yeah, it definitely is complicated. Let's move to the second part of this question because it's in a way more marketing related. But when we look back into the history of marketing, as the Global Game Changing has become fundamentally since the 50s, roughly many link some of the greatest marketing campaigns with behaviours that haven't been good for the planet. So to give some examples, diamonds are forever. I saw the story on Netflix, and I was flabbergasted at how this campaign came about, and the selfishness that drove it and the success attack. I mean, it's still something that women desire for their weddings, which is just absolutely nuts for me, then when we look at things like Coca Cola, you know, you want to feel refreshed Coke is it. We saw people like Ronaldo push away the coke bottle when he's doing his conferences, etc. So with Coke, it's it's it's really about having this fizzy gas, sugary alternative to water. And it uses so much water as well, which is such a big challenge for us right now. So how can we do better? How can we really move this along? You know, we even had the depiction of advertising we saw in Mad Men, you know, the tobacco lobby and things like this, what role does marketing have to play in some of the inequality and health challenges that we currently face? In your view? And how can we do better?
Russ Avery 16:24
Yeah, so there's absolutely no doubt about it. Historically, marketing and advertising has been a massive part of the problem. There's just no, no two ways about it. You've already mentioned some of them, Katherine, in your question there. But the obvious ones would be tobacco, literally used to be advertised as a health benefit. So a cigarette a day keeps the doctor away and stuff like that. Alcohol, of course, which continues to this day, but is more regulated than it used to be, gambling. And then the big one for me would, of course, be overconsumption, marketing has played a direct role in the terrible inequalities in the world, and the environmental degradation of the planet, because it has forced us albeit sometimes subliminally, to buy crap that we don't want, need, or is even bad for our health. I mean, imagine, it sounds crazy, when you actually take a step back to think about it, doesn't it that we will actively buy things and consume things, which we know are bad for us. But of course, we've seen a cool advert or a great marketing campaign for it, and it makes us desire that thing. So 100%, marketing has played a massive role in, in the global inequality in health challenges that we face. And again, where it gets interesting for me is how it now can and must be part of the solution. And I mentioned earlier about how we can achieve that by working on positive campaigns, which are honest and authentic and which don't greenwash, to educate people.
Katherine Ann Byam 18:02
So let's move to a more positive note, shall we tell us about some of those campaigns you are currently working on, or have worked on in the past that are making a difference to what marketing can become?
Russ Avery 18:13
Absolutely, as I was saying, the reason I'm excited about the role that marketing can play in the future and being part of the solution to all these challenges we face, is because of the reach and the impact that it can have when done correctly. So what really excites me are marketing campaigns, which drive education, which share best practices, and which ultimately inspire and empower their audiences to maybe ask the right questions, but ultimately also start taking action and start taking positive action. That's really exciting. An example of a campaign that we've worked on in the past is the hashtag tackle the crisis campaign, that was our kind of biggest campaign today in terms of the global reach that we had. So it was done on behalf of our client; Elodie. And it was so simple, which is probably why it was so effective. And it was a user generated campaign, which encouraged people to promote brands and individuals which are providing planet positive solutions, and also to share positive and uplifting environmental news. And it had the very simple aim of helping to tackle the climate crisis by promoting those positive solutions, but also keep people's climate anxiety at bay. So really tackling those two important issues at once because climate anxiety is a real issue now, especially for those who work in sustainability, but also just for the general public who are clued up about the issues. So it was a campaign which simultaneously educated, promoted better alternatives and better options, whether it was sustainable and ethical goods or services, shared positive environmental news of which there is loads around, but we forget that because obviously If we're glued to the media, then we're just fed the deluge of doom and gloom news stories about how bad the state of the world is, which is true, but there needs to be some balance there. So we were encouraging people to promote and share these positive environmental news stories which they'd been hearing about or which they knew about themselves, of which there are 1000s. Because there are so many good people out there trying to do good things. And even the kind of more global positive news stories about the reintroduction of species or species which have recovered due to protected areas and stuff can get really bumped down the newspapers and the, you know, the news feeds, so they needed to be brought to the fore. That was a really good example of a marketing campaign with a really hugely positive impact. And it's still kind of going on to this day, because the beauty of the user generated aspects of the campaign is that people are just using the hashtags tackle the crisis whenever they share something positive.
Katherine Ann Byam 20:56
Yeah, I get that. I'm going to ask you a question that I didn't prepare you for. So sorry about that. But Tik Tok, so we talk about education as being essential to the sustainability movement. And in a way Tik Tok has been well, quite fundamental in the education of our youth, today with very short videos, with social justice topics, I think they do very, very well. I don't think they do as well on environmental topics. What are your thoughts about how we can capitalise on this massively growing, exciting, medium to communicate the best messages for youth?
Russ Avery 21:37
Wow, amazing question. So quite timely, as well. So Avery & Brown, we're brand new to Tik Tok, we quite literally joined it about two weeks ago, I think, and I'm very new to it personally as well. And the reason that we decided to go on to Tik Tok, and investigate it and be on there as a brand is simply because of everything you've just said about the number of people that are being reached on there. And that we knew that there was some good creators on Tik Tok, who were having success in terms of their reach, like views and engagement, who are talking about sustainability related issues. So we thought, well, we absolutely need to be on there and trial it for us. And I think the answer to your question in terms of how we can leverage it, is we need to be where the people are. So more brands like us need to at least investigate these new channels, which are popping up to see if they're viable channels and mediums for us to share our messages, so that we can reach more people who care. And yeah, it's interesting, we've shared I think, I think you'll find three videos on the Avery & Brown Tik Tok page at the moment, but purely in terms of the views that they've had, they're much higher than when we shared them on LinkedIn, and Instagram, which is really interesting. So we're definitely going to stay on Tik Tok in the short term. And where it's going to be interesting for us is sharing more of our messages about educating people about the climate crisis and sustainability and the role that both individuals and businesses can play in tackling it and see, see what happens. If we start getting incredible views and engagement there, then we'll know that it's a really good channel to reach maybe beyond the echo chamber that we, that you get stuck with, particularly on LinkedIn, for example, I don't know if you find this, Katherine. But while we can get good engagement on our LinkedIn posts, and I've been on LinkedIn for years, and building up a personal brand and publishing content, almost daily, as you know, you still see the same people like liking, commenting and engaging and it feels really difficult to reach beyond that echo chamber. Otherwise, we're all just talking to each other about the stuff we already know about, right. I think new channels like Tik Tok, which I know isn't that new anymore, and they'll be something else soon. I'm sure. I think we are we need to explore these for for the benefit of the bigger picture.
Katherine Ann Byam 24:00
Yeah. And it brings me to another question that they didn't tell you about. But it's kind of around the direction of Facebook at the moment and the metaverse. And I'm not sold on it. I think Mark is, but I don't know if the rest of the world is. And I don't know if it's actually a good place for us to start thinking about how we would prepare a strategy for for that type of reality. What are your thoughts?
Russ Avery 24:26
Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to say hands up. I know, almost nothing about it, because it personally just doesn't interest me that much. I get it. But the concepts for me of yeah, this virtual reality world that we can all kind of interact with each other in is just lost on me as someone who wants to protect, you know, what's right outside there, like in the real world. So there will be incredible use cases for the metaverse, which I don't know about because I'm not the person to talk to about that. That I'm sure will be of benefit to certain sectors and demographics. But I don't know what they are. And I'm just far more concerned like you are Katherine with the real world and doing whatever we can to protect it and solve the issues that we know about which are out there. Yeah, that's an interesting one. And I'm sure Mark's got other ideas. But hey, get him on the show next, right.
Katherine Ann Byam 25:23
Yeah, if only, you know, it's interesting and it's my final comments on this topic, but my godson, so I don't have kids, but my godson spends a lot of time with his friends playing fortnite, or things like this. So I see that it has relevance, especially for this generation, at this certain age where, you know, the pandemic happened, and they spent a lot of time in their houses not being able to see their friends. They've sort of built this relationship and this whole new world playing games online. And I see that this generation that's coming up now could potentially be that Metaverse generation, right, they could be the ones who you know, really get something from spending time with their friends in these kinds of virtual reality situations, you know, like Ready Player One, stuff like that. So I can see it becoming a thing. But the question is, will we get there? Will we even get there? And that's the problem that we need to solve first. Right. So on that topic, I'm going to ask you now should marketing be regulated in your view? Yeah.
Russ Avery 26:18
So here in the UK, like fortunately, all marketing and advertising must be an accurate description of the product or service. It should be truthful, honest, and socially responsible. And you can't include false or deceptive messages or leave out any important information. So at least we've got a head start on what I'm sure the cases in other countries. And in the context of our conversation today around sustainability, and regenerative business practices and marketing, there's something called the Green Claims Code now, which is great, because everyone must now ensure that any environmental claims on goods and services don't mislead customers, and that they can be substantiated, which you'll remember from when we talked about greenwash earlier. So it's pretty simple, actually, all claims must be truthful and accurate, and clear and unambiguous. And that is such a wonderful thing. Because on LinkedIn alone, I've been seeing more and more people sharing posts about adverts, which they've adverts in marketing campaigns, which they've spotted where they've questioned it. And it's led to amazing discussions in the comments. And then more often than not, we've also seen that actually, the Advertising Standards Authority have stepped in and the green claims code has been brought into effect and the marketing campaign or the the advertising campaign has been has been shut down. And that's brilliant. Fortunately, consumers are becoming much more savvy to greenwash and much more capable of spotting it or at least questioning it, which is the first part of that education. And then, you know, that's one of the ways social media really comes into its own, in a good way, is being able to share that and ask your your network and your audience what they think, or if in Indeed, it is illegal and should be taken down and it leads to a great discussion. And it helps educate others, because they go oh, yeah, I didn't really think about that. But that is, you know, how did they get away with that? That's really positive, in my opinion. And I'm really glad that we're seeing these, these greenwashing campaigns being shut down. Because remember, more often than not, they are deliberate, because they're being done by the bigger firms which know exactly what they're doing. And they are trying to mislead us. And then there are a few instances where it's a really interesting grey area, because the company the brand, hasn't done it deliberately, it's just been the kind of slight nuance of language. And that's where they need expertise of sustainable marketers, and people who are clued up on greenwash and what you can and can't say, to help them with their campaigns. So you know, we exist to help our clients do that. And we don't, we don't have to do it that often because we're more brand consultancy focused. But we do help run marketing campaigns as well, of course, and so it's something that we need to be acutely aware of in the language that we use on behalf of our clients to make sure that their compliant.
Katherine Ann Byam 29:09
Wonderful, thank you for sharing. And what I'd love to do now is to take advantage of your knowledge. And have you share sort of three foundational approaches perhaps, that you use when preparing a branding or marketing campaign for, a for purpose brand. So to help our listeners who might be either interested in social media or doing their own small businesses that are purpose led?
Russ Avery 29:35
Absolutely. Number one would have to be sticking to your why and your purpose. And it sounds obvious, but it seems to be really easy to forget. So that's why it has to be my number one tip there. So assuming that your brand has completed some comprehensive brand strategy work and your purpose driven business, which knows your why and your purpose, which again, sounds obvious, but we'll talk a bit about that later. You have to make sure that any campaign that you're doing harks back to your why and your purpose so that it has not only the right impact for your audience, but the right impact for you. Which leads me on to my second one, which is staying true to your vision and your values. So what are you actually trying to achieve both as a business and with this campaign? Is the campaign helping you to achieve your vision? And by staying true to your values, I mean, does the campaign have the right tone of voice and the right values, which you talk about on your website, which we've seen instances of the campaign, maybe using slightly different language, which puts, sets your brand in a different light than the way you talk about yourself on the about page, when you talk about your values and your vision and stuff, you really want to make sure that they're aligned, so that the campaign looks like it is actually, from your brand, how you talk about yourself, and that can be executed in multiple different ways. So I mentioned tone of voice there, here's your overall branding. And there's reflecting the language that you use in your purpose statement and your vision statement and stuff. And this is completely applicable to any brands, not just a for purpose brand, but don't forget to put yourself in your audience's shoes. So you've got to really think; how is this campaign going to be seen or heard, when I'm actually the audience when I'm reading that social media post when I'm looking at that billboard. And, you know, perhaps I'd argue that that is even more important for purpose brands, because of the positive impacts that that could go on to have because actually, it's not a campaign by Coca Cola. It's a campaign by a for purpose brand, which is probably trying to achieve something really positive in the world. Maybe that's the argument for saying that, harking back to your purpose, your vision, your values, and putting yourself in your audience's shoes is even more important for, for purpose brands, because of the positive impacts that you're trying to create.
Katherine Ann Byam 31:56
What advice would you give to green eco sustainable regenerative startups that are entering the marketplace? Now? Do you feel like it's too crowded?
Russ Avery 32:04
That's a really interesting one about whether I feel it's too crowded or not, I don't feel it's too crowded with exactly the right kind of brands that we need, I think there's still a huge opportunity out there for the really amazing purpose driven ones who are going to be, you know, the next big purpose driven companies of tomorrow. There are however, a lot of sustainable in inverted commas brands popping up. But this is a whole nother answer. But there are too many of them which, like clearly jumping on the bandwagon a bit. And they've just put the word sustainable and sustainability in some of their copy. But when you when you scratch the surface and dig a little deeper, they're nothing of the sort in terms of the way that they operate and stuff. So unfortunately, that is just something which happens whenever anything becomes trendy. And let's face it, sustainability is becoming trendy, which is why more of these brands are popping up. Because these days you people feel like you need to be seen to be doing something. So if their business which isn't doing something, some of them will just lie about it and drop in a few words here in there for the advice I'd give to green eco sustainable regenerative startups entering the marketplace, now, if you focus on your brand strategy at a deep level, I promise you, you will instantly set yourselves apart from 99% of your competition, it can seem really obvious that if you are a green eco or sustainable startup, purpose is something which is completely fundamental to your business. But actually true purpose is obviously more than skin deep. So whether you're a startup or an established business, a rock solid brand strategy is an essential foundation of any great sustainable brands. And it's about knowing yourself at a really deep level, and answering lots of key questions about your purpose, your vision, your mission, because you can be a sustainable startup, which knows what its end goal is, but it hasn't answered enough questions about itself and the way it's going to operate, if that makes sense. So they know that they want to achieve something good in the world through what they're selling, whether that be a product or service, but actually they haven't paid much attention to their own brand strategy, which is about realising your potential and exploring what's possible. So getting to know yourself and your priorities inside out, who exactly you're talking to, so really niching down on who your audience is, who else is talking out there, that's obviously your competition, and that brand strategy stage can extend as far as your budget allows, but ultimately, the more you can afford to spend on it in those early days, the better your foundation for growth is going to be and you'll really help set yourself up for for that long term success. So that's why we have such a thorough four stage approach. Three, three of those stages are foundational groundwork we do before we start the actual marketing. So all the campaigns and the general or ongoing marketing activities are all in what we call stage four, which is execute. But our stages one, two and three are doing a huge amount of groundwork getting under the bonnet of the business and understanding it at the deepest level possible working with them on their purpose, vision, values, tone of voice, etc, brand identity before they go and jump ahead and do that. And that's what's helping our clients to kind of see success and grow and not feel like they've plateaued or growing too quickly by skipping these crucial steps that I think every business needs to focus on. But, again, I'm biassed, but I'd say it's even more important for the kind of planet positive brands that we're looking to work with.
Katherine Ann Byam 35:39
Wonderful Russ, this has been an insightful session. I've loved our conversation, can you share with my listeners how they can get in touch with you?
Russ Avery 35:46
Sure. Thank you so much, Katherine, people please feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. You'll find me on LinkedIn just by searching for Russ Avery, our website's Avery & Brown.com. And you can find us on LinkedIn, Instagram and TikTok. Now just using the handle at Avery&Brown,
Katherine Ann Byam 36:03
Perfect thanks so much.
Russ Avery 36:04
Thanks, Katherine.
Katherine Ann Byam 36:08
This podcast is brought to you today by the brand new Women In Sustainable Business Awards that kicks off in 2023. If you're a business owner who's starting a business with principles of sustainability in mind, and you want to preserve some lost skills, some handcrafting, artisanal work, or you're a social media manager supporting purpose driven brands, or you're creating fashion, or something that is relevant to the sustainability and green transformation, you are more than welcome to join us, and to get involved in these awards. Check out our group, on Facebook; Woman In Sustainable Business, or follow the podcast; Where Ideas Launch, on Instagram to find out more.