Selina is the Founder & CEO of Recloseted, the first one-stop consultancy for sustainable fashion. Recloseted launches + scales sustainable fashion brands and helps existing brands become more conscious through their programs and consulting services. Selina leverages her experience working at startups and Fortune 500s, and now leads an all-star team of consultants, sourcing experts, and material scientists to transform the harmful fashion industry.
Katherine Ann Byam 0:01
Let's talk a little bit about this whole field of sustainable fashions, everyone appears to know that their fashion choices have an impact. But yet, we still see people continuing to enjoy these practices that aren't necessarily helpful. What are your thoughts on this?
Selina Ho 0:17
I will say I do think most people know now about fast fashion and the differences between that and slow fashion. When I first started half a decade ago, I would say it was dicey around who knew and who didn't. And so to your point now, I almost feel like there's no excuse not to do anything. And so what I think personally is holding people back is a combination of things. One thing could be money, the other thing could just be time. And then the third thing could just be lack of care if I'm being blunt, right, because if you really care, you're going to do something about it.
Katherine Ann Byam 0:49
This is season five, the great debates of our times, Season Five will be centred around the great debates. And we will be comparing and contrasting different viewpoints on various topics that are consuming the public discourse at present. The reason I've decided to take this approach is because, we or at least many of us, are losing the skill of debate. And I think this is an essential skill for us all to practice once more. I don't see how we get to the point of saving the world and saving our planet, if we don't know how to discuss our differences. I also think that the solution to most of our challenges is somewhere in the spectrum of views but never at either extreme. I will be working with guests to curate the content and discuss beforehand, I will understand their positions, their areas of genius, and navigate my questions around that so that the conversation is challenging and stimulating without being combative. I hope you enjoy Season Five of Where Ideas launch; The Sustainable Innovation Podcast. Selina is the founder and CEO of recloseted the first one stop consultancy for sustainable fashion. Recloseted launches and scales, sustainable fashion brands, and helps existing brands become more conscious through their programmes and consulting services. Selina leverages her experience working at startups and fortune 500s, and now leads an all star team of consultants, sourcing experts and material scientists to transform the harmful fashion industry. Selina, welcome to where it is lunch.
Selina Ho 2:23
Thank you so much, Katherine, I'm so excited to be here.
Katherine Ann Byam 2:26
Really great to have you. I really want to understand a little bit about what you do in more detail. Because it's amazing when I look at the summary of what you've shared with us in your bio, and I Googled your digital footprint, and it's all very impressive. I noticed your degree was in business and not necessarily dedicated to sustainability. So I'd love to know where your interest and passion for sustainable business and life comes from.
Selina Ho 2:50
Yeah, well, thank you so much for the kind words, I think that I've just always been so passionate about this. And it just organically happened. And I find that that's always really fun, where you go to school and you study something, you start working, and then it doesn't really make sense when you're going through it, but then when you look back, you're like, oh, this makes sense. So, anyways, long story short, I've always been passionate about entrepreneurship. I've also always been passionate about the environment. So background on me, I grew up in Vancouver, Canada, and if you've ever been there, if you haven't been there, beautiful, there's lots of nature, there's lots of mountains and oceans. And I was always surrounded by that. And I would enjoy hiking and snowboarding and just like just always love being in nature. And then personally for me, too, I've just always been so inspired by entrepreneurship and building your own company building something that does good for you, its employees that you employ, and also the environment and trying to figure out the intersectionality of all of that. And so I went to business school, I learned kind of The ABCs of business, and it was good, but I graduated. And so I did a corporate job. And at that corporate job, maybe like a lot of your listeners, I kind of felt really lost. And I didn't really know what I was doing with my career. And I was like, why am I in this cubicle? I feel like I'm just rotting away. And at that point, I had really discovered just like fashion and the harmful effects of it. Granted, you know, I've always loved fashion, I love clothing. But yeah, just like finding out more about the sustainability side of it, the environmental side of it, it spurred when I got a skin rash actually wearing a blouse at work. And we can talk a little bit more about that. But that really spurred me to go down this rabbit hole of trying to figure out what's going on with our clothes and what I can do to help.
Katherine Ann Byam 4:36
What was the moment that you knew sustainable fashion was going to be where you drive your efforts forward and and create that change and impact, what really happened to make this business model make sense for you.
Selina Ho 4:47
Yeah, so like I mentioned, it all started kind of with that skin rash and I was wearing a polyester blouse at the time I kind of knew what polyester was, but I didn't really and when I started Googling it I found out it's basically made out of oil. And I always like to say, you know, we're not going to go to the gas station put oil all over our bodies. So why are we wearing these garments for hours and hours on end, right, and the materials was kind of just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to fast fashion and the harmful effects of fashion. And so I went down this deep, dark rabbit hole of the unethical treatment of garment workers, the harmful materials that we're putting on our bodies, the millions and millions of tonnes of textile waste going to our landfills filling up the global South, like there's just so much wrong with the fashion industry. And that was when the passion and the fire really lit within me to do something about it, because up until then, I had worked out a lot of like, you know, fortune 500s, startups, like I mentioned, like you mentioned, but it just didn't feel fulfilling. And I really wanted to take my expertise and my skills and put it towards something that I really believed in. And so that's when that kind of started and then the actual starting of Recloseted as a business came really organically. I started the podcast, I wrote a handbook to consumers about how to really start the sustainable fashion journey. And then I started working pro bono for local sustainable brands, just helping them launch, helping them scale, and I was able to get them a lot of great results and in the process, I also loved the work I was doing. And so then I was like, I should turn this into business. So that's how it started. It was really organic. And again, looking back, it kind of makes sense. But going through it, it was very messy.
Katherine Ann Byam 6:26
That's really great. And that's the kind of stories we like to hear. Because a lot of people, you know, they're going through this difficult phase, and you know, maybe one or two years in and you're still not sure you're still not convinced it's ready to tip to your favour. But you know, it does tip. And I think that's part of the beauty of this journey, and the commitment that you make as well the long term commitment and all the marketing choices that you make. So let's talk a little bit about this whole field of sustainable fashion. So there's a lot of knowledge out there. And everyone appears to know that their fashion choices have an impact. But yet we still see people supporting those damaging brands, and continuing to perhaps enjoy these practices that aren't necessarily helpful. What are your thoughts on this?
Selina Ho 7:12
Yeah, so I will say I do think most people know now about fast fashion and the differences between that and slow fashion. When I first started half a decade ago, I would say it was dicey around who knew and who didn't. And so to your point, now, I almost feel like there's no excuse not to do anything. And so what I think personally is holding people back is a combination of things. One thing could be money, the other thing could just be time. And then the third thing could just be lack of care if I'm being blunt, right, because if you really care, you're going to do something about it. And so with the money piece, sustainable fashion does have typically a bad reputation for being more expensive for being inaccessible. And I'm happy to talk about how everyday consumers can, you know, try to incorporate more sustainable practices, even on a budget later on, if that's helpful, but there's the money piece, and also for brands as well, right, they have to invest and paying their garment workers higher or more, they have to invest in better quality materials, they have to, you know, design intentionally. And so all of that has higher costs associated with, with all of that. So costs are definitely something that hold people back. And then of course time as well, right? Like if you're going to thrift or if you're going to try to research a sustainable brand. Or on the brand side, if you want to actually think intentionally about what to design versus just copying a fast fashion brand, then all that requires more time and more effort. And the banner on top of all that is the care, right? Like you really need to figure out which part of the fashion industry resonates with you, why you're really passionate about solving it like me, like for me, personally, it was the textile waste, and also the unethical treatment of garment workers like that really, really lit a fire in me. And so, yeah, I think it's a combination of those things. And of course, some people might have a lack of education as well. And so if that's you, please watch the true cost, please. You know, Google, there's, there's so many resources out there. There's so many documentaries, so many videos, so there's really no excuse.
Katherine Ann Byam 9:09
Yeah, I get that. And I'd love to experience what this journey was like in terms of the success stories that you've had those campaigns you've run for clients, and the impact that your work has actually had on communities perhaps and even in the lives of the business owners.
Selina Ho 9:25
Yeah. So one thing I would love to share with your listeners is when you're going through it, yes, it's messy every single day kind of feels the same, kind of like Groundhog Day. But when you take a look back and you really write down all of your accomplishments and your successes, you realise how far you've come. And so I really recommend to your listeners to do that on a monthly quarterly and annual basis. Because in preparation for this podcast, I kind of like thought through it and I was like well, we've actually done a lot in the past few years. And so yeah, there's there's a few things I'm proud of so for our recorded radio podcast, we've had hundreds of 1000s of downloads and streams. So that's something I'm really, really proud of, because that just means our message is getting out there, and people are joining our movement. And then from a brand perspective, we've helped 1000s of brands all over the world as well, which is also something I'm incredibly proud of, because, again, that speaks to sustainable fashion taking off worldwide, but also speaks to the amount of impact we can have. And when our brands and our clients make better choices, we also have a better impact on the environment and on, you know, society in general, so that's been really great. And just on a very, I guess, tactical level, I'm also very passionate about creating conscious wealth for entrepreneurs, because I often find that with fashion and with kind of more creative businesses, there's this mentality of being a starving artist, and I hate that mentality. And I hate that stigma. And so I'm really, really passionate about creating conscious wealth for all of our clients. And so our LYB programme launches brands that make at minimum 20k. That's something I'm really, really proud of our Accelerate Your Brand programme helps clients to be able to achieve consistent monthly revenue, which is really, really tough for entrepreneurs just starting out. And so I really am a firm believer in doing something that you're passionate about, doing a business that can have a great impact on the environment, but also making sure that you can pay yourself, your employees and everyone just associated with the business,
Katherine Ann Byam 11:26
What are the challenges and obstacles that might be getting in the way for some of your clients at the moment, and what needs to happen to make those things improve, it maybe some of the things my clients or even my listeners are facing now?
Selina Ho 11:37
Yeah, if I'm being honest, I think funding is a struggle for a lot of business owners right now, especially in the recession, especially coming out of COVID. And for a lot of our clients, and probably your clients and your listeners too, if you have higher business costs, because you are paying people fairly, you're buying better materials, then it's a struggle, right? Like you really want to figure out how you can drum up sales. So what I always tell our clients is in these difficult times to really double down and figure out who your ideal customer is, really try to nurture them, really try to figure out what their pain points are. And just be super intentional with every single thing you put out there. We've also really suggested to a lot of our clients to move to more of a pre sales or inventory, like made to order model versus having inventory, because that can be a lot better in these uncertain times. And then I'll just like kind of a plea or a message to just an everyday consumer out there. If you do have some money and you are thinking about buying new clothes, or you need something, please try to support one of your local sustainable brands, because they definitely need that funding and that money way more than a fast fashion brand. So please just take five to 10 minutes, do a quick Google search, try to find a local brand in your area that you like and vote with your dollars, right? Like if you support them, that's going to go so much further than you giving it to Zara, or you know, some of those other fast fashion brands, and we won't name them all. But you know, so just Just please be more mindful.
Katherine Ann Byam 13:04
And I want to touch on this aspect of funding and what has been sort of your experience in helping some of your business owners get funding or in getting funding for yourself? Can you share a bit about that?
Selina Ho 13:17
Yeah, so in terms of funding, there's a few different mechanisms that we have suggested to our clients to leverage. So we actually don't recommend our clients get investment from private equity or you know, other investors just because it's really, really hard from a b2c perspective, they're always looking for really innovative products. But beyond that, their time horizon for returns are also very, very short, usually. And so it can get really, really stressful. And so instead, I think that pre sales model can really, really help where you get funding in advance from your customers. You can also try something like crowdfunding, which is another model where your customers pool and they help perhaps pay for your production, which is the highest cost and then you can go off and go make it. There's of course also bank loans, but now with interest rates being where they are, I kind of don't recommend that anymore, unless you absolutely, absolutely have to. Of course, there's also funding and raising from loved ones and family members, so friendlies if you're able to do that and take it seriously and show them the routine, you know, the returns and all those things. But yeah, I think just really trying to double down on getting funding from your customers. That's always what we recommend to our clients, be it from a pre sales or advanced, made to order type model or just trying to drum up sales and trying to be more innovative with your marketing both organic and paid and doing some of those things. But I know it's tough.
Katherine Ann Byam 14:43
It is definitely tough. And it's a journey that I think a lot of people are just contemplating right now given the economics of the situation today and probably even people turning away from, from their small businesses because of the anxiety involved in it, all right, so it's definitely a challenge. So I want to move into your big goals, your key milestones, what you think is gonna happen for a closeted or what you'd like to happen for a closeted in the next couple of years.
Selina Ho 15:11
Yeah, when it comes to goals, I just want to get bigger, scale up, really scale our impact, that's really it, we just started a YouTube channel. So just making sure we continue to grow that, obviously growing our podcast, growing our clientele. And at the end of the day, I just really want to make sure that we move the, the needle in the industry where it needs to go. And I really think that we just need to keep doing what we're doing. We just need to put the gas to it. And yeah, so that's really the big, hairy, audacious goal just get better, and get bigger and just scale up.
Katherine Ann Byam 15:45
Are you currently doing any impact reporting?
Selina Ho 15:47
Yes we are. And so that's also something I really want to do in the next year or so as well, because a lot of our clients, we do a lot of the sustainability consulting for them in terms of like water usage, and dyes and all those things, and I would love to aggregate it, and then kind of show like our overall impact, because I think that would be so cool to see. But it's, it's just just a matter of time and resources and just finding that but that's definitely on the list.
Katherine Ann Byam 16:14
Yeah perfect, that's a really solid way to demonstrate right. And it's really good for for potential customers for potential investors as well, super. So let's move now to tips. And I want to do this in two directions to consumers interested in sustainable fashion, who may be looking for, you know, ideas and how to develop their wardrobes, etc. And to business developing clothing brands, who are also curious about what they can do to have more reach and more impact with their campaigns and sales.
Selina Ho 16:44
Yeah, so let's start with consumers. So consumers, I really think first of all, you need to educate yourself, if you aren't already educated. So watch the true cost, you can check out our handbook, it's just recloseted.com/handbook There's really no excuse, there's so many resources out there. And then the first step I like to say is just to figure out your why. So which part of the harmful fashion industry resonates with you so that you're intrinsically motivated to do something about it. And then the second step, I always like to say too, is just accept, you're going to be imperfectly sustainable, because otherwise, if you want to be perfect, you're gonna get really, really overwhelmed and probably give up. So just understand, it's not going to happen overnight, but you can take baby steps, and that's okay, so maybe the first step you take is you don't buy new clothes for six months, and you try that out and you see what happens. Or maybe the first step you take is you thrift clothes for a year and you don't buy anything, and you issue those fun challenges to yourself. And maybe that inspires your friends or your family members. But I really think you need to start somewhere and be okay with what you have in your wardrobe already. Just accept it, be fine with it and just move on and try to just buy less as much as possible. That's something that I always encourage. And then for the brands that you are buying from just make sure they align with your values. So yeah, I hope that helps. But just accept that you're not going to be perfect, that's okay, and just figure out what's going to motivate you to keep going. And then from a brand perspective, I always always always talk about taking a customer first approach. So figuring out who your ideal customer is, and knowing that inside and out through market research, surveys and interviews, and that way you can figure out the pain point that they're struggling with, and then create a product to solve that pain point. Because we do not need more product just because people want to make another t-shirt or sell another pair of pants, we just don't need that anymore. But we need innovative things that solve problems. And when you have a product that solves a problem, people will quite literally give you their credit card because they're like, I need this in my life, right. And so it's really, really important to take that customer first approach. And when you do that, from a strategic perspective, your marketing, your campaigns, everything does line into place. But you do need to take the time to really understand your customers and be strategic and intentional about what you're producing.
Katherine Ann Byam 19:02
It's interesting, and I always find myself at this point of a conversation with anyone in the sustainability space, around scaling up and growth and the conflict around what growth is potentially doing to our lives and our environment. Right. And, of course, we want more sustainability, we want more brands that are like ours to grow. But still, ultimately, consumption has become overwhelmingly part of the problem. What, how do you reconcile that?
Selina Ho 19:32
Yeah, it's something that myself and a lot of our clients think about and keeps, I know keeps a lot of them up at night. And so the first piece of advice I have is to get clear on how big you want to get. Because in business and in hustle culture, if you will, you always are pushed to scale you're always pick, really pushed to like 2x revenue 5x revenue and I think that's really, really unhelpful because if you don't want to grow to become a $50 million business, then you don't have to, if you're happy growing and scaling up to a million, and that's going to be able to give you, your employees, your families enough income, then that's what you need to aim for. But you don't need to then feel stressed to then have to reach 10 million, 20 million, like if you don't want to. And so the first thing is getting really clear on where you want to go and how big you want to go. And then the next step is to work backwards to figure out what's the best and most conscious way you can go about it. And one thing I always like to say too is, there is actually no such thing as a truly sustainable business, because if you want it to be truly sustainable, you wuldn't even start a business to begin with. So the name of the game really is about balance, how do you balance your business activities, making a profit, but then also minimising your impact on the environment. And so I think Patagonia, for example, does a really good job of that they are very transparent about their shortcomings and their limitations. And they have scaled up to be quite a big brand I think all of us can agree on. But they try to do it in the best manner possible. And at the end of the day, I think the best thing you can do is try, the best thing you can do is do the best with your time, your resources and your budgets. And you just have to do that. Because the alternative is you don't do your brand you give up and everyone else gives up and then we're left with only fast fashion brands, right. And so I think it's really important to get clear on how big you want to get what you can do to get there and the best way you can do that, and just make peace with it.
Katherine Ann Byam 21:30
Yeah. And finally, how can my listeners get in touch and engage with your work? I know you've already shared about the podcast, but how else can we get on board?
Selina Ho 21:38
Yeah, I mean, we're pretty much everywhere. So if you want to check out our website, it's just recloseted.com we have a tonne of free resources on there. So please take advantage of them. We are also on all social media channels pretty much so it's just at recloseted. We are on YouTube. We also have the recorded radio podcast so please reach out. We would love to hear from you. If you have any questions about anything I mentioned, I am happy to answer them so you can shoot us a DM you can send us an email at Hello@recloseted.com we really are here to help transform the harmful fashion industry and support everyone. So please, please, please reach out.
Katherine Ann Byam 22:14
Awesome. Thank you Selina. It's been such a joy meeting you and chatting to you today.
Selina Ho 22:18
Thanks so much, Katherine. This is so fun. And I hope that this is really helpful to your listeners.
Katherine Ann Byam 22:26
This podcast is brought to you today by the brand new Women In Sustainable Business Awards that kicks off in 2023. If you're a business owner who's starting a business with principles of sustainability in mind, and you want to preserve some lost skills, some handcrafting, artisanal work, or you're a social media manager supporting purpose driven brands, or you're creating fashion, or something that is relevant to the sustainability and green transformation, you are more than welcome to join us, and to get involved in these awards. Check out our group, on Facebook; Woman In Sustainable Business, or follow the podcast; Where Ideas Launch, on Instagram to find out more.