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About this Episode

In this episode we discuss

• How Howard pivoted from HR to decarbonising our atmosphere.
• How a sustainable business model was developed for his Kelp farming operation
• What you can do to get involved in a supporting your planet to survive and thrive.

Howard Gunstock refers to life as the great adventure. A career people developer, Howard is one of the co-founders of Carbon Kapture, a business whose intention is to help the world reframe their relationship with carbon and CO2 pollution; he is never one to shy away from a daunting challenge.

His career is a bit of an adventure too. After leaving school in the mid 90’s he became an early practitioner of the Law of Attraction, living in Australia and working in sales under the tutorage of Julie Renyard (EatPlayLive). After a stint in Telemarketing he worked in event management and lived and worked in Ibiza before another career pivot in 2003 took him into Banking and Insurance whilst he studied HR. Now, with over a decade’s experience in executing corporate development strategies for some of the world’s best-known brands, he is pivoting once again into monetising one of the world’s biggest challenges, the climate crisis.

Want to support this daring young company? click here to support their crowd funding campaign.

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Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam  0:02  Howard Gunstock, welcome to Where Ideas Launch, and I'm going to launch straight into a question. You just begun fundraising for this fascinating, sustainably savvy project called Carbon Kapture. Tell us about this journey for you.

Howard Gunstock  2:12  

Thank you. Yeah, it's about four months ago, I had a couple of life moments. I was looking for opportunities. I ended up reflecting on myself what was going on with the climate crisis at the time. Greta Thunberg was talking quite passionately about the effects of climate change. And I guess like many people of similar age have similar thinking, I took some personal reflection time, and I ended up going to some Friends of the Earth meetings, some extinction rebellion meetings, just to find out what might interest me on what I could do that fitted in with me, right?

As part of that journey, I ended up joining Friends of the Earth and watching this incredible firm called climaterace.org. It's really incredible. And the directors, they're doing an open Q&A. So there's me sitting there, and I get this idea, looking at this film, that I would actually I'd actually pay good money to reverse some of my impact on climate change. And that was what was going through my head at the time when I was seeing all of this film. I would pay money for this. And they were talking about the ways of extracting carbon, and it's based on some ideas and concepts that hadn't happened. And there was a joke that went around that said If only there was a way to extract carbon naturally.

And the joke was there are the trees. And this guy behind me just piped up and said, "kelp grows 30 times faster than trees." And those two thoughts together just clashed. Unlike there's something in this, right. There's something in this and me and this guy, Dave ended up having a couple of conversations and we got on really well. He's the idea and the engineer guy. And I had no idea of taking advantage of this potential opportunity. And we stuck with it for a few months. If you see something bad happening here like if you're across the street, you saw someone being mugged or robbed or something, and you walk by and do nothing. You're complicit in that.

Katherine Ann Byam  4:35  

That's so wonderful. So you didn't come from a background in science. You came from a background in human resource management, I think. Tell us about what that gave you to be able to be doing this. I mean, how did that happen?

Howard Gunstock  4:52  

Also a great question. I've always been into people development and I had some fantastic training when I was younger. I met a lady named Judy Renyard when I was something like 19 or 20 years old. She taught me the law of attraction and taught me the power of positive thinking and how to see things that visualise ideas. Make things happen by being a good influence, having a good impact on the world. I got into sales. I was always into sales, team development, and then I got into event management.

And I got into developing musicians. And then I got into HR and the development of people. It's fascinating, I enjoyed psychology. But what it helped me do was develop this diverse network of connections and people. And it's that network, which and my understanding of people's skill set that I've used to help develop Carbon Kapture. We have something in the region of nine or ten kelpers. So our collective names of people in the organisation Kelpers. And it's been brilliant. It's been a really enjoyable process for us.

Katherine Ann Byam  6:17  

Howard, this is such a wonderful story. But please tell our listeners what exactly is kelp.

Howard Gunstock  6:23  

Kelp is a type of fast-growing plant that grows in the water. It's not seaweed, seaweed is a catch-all term for any plant really that grows underwater. kelp is a particular type of tree of a maritime plant that grows naturally on shorelines and grows really rapidly. You can eat it, it's a superfood. What we're doing is we're using it for additional purposes. So we are using the kelp to rapidly grow and capture carbon through the use of photosynthesis. Essentially, it takes the carbon in the sea out of CO2. When it's fully grown, we take the kelp harvested, dry out and use it for animal feed or fertiliser.

The reason why it's such a fantastic product is that when cattle eat it, they produce 90%, less methane gas. Additionally, if you use it for fertiliser, it's not about plant fertiliser, it gives the ground 30% more nutrient yield. You're taking Earth, which is nutrient-poor through farming and taking carbon that is from the sea which is extremely nutrient-rich, that's been living at the bottom of the oceans for years. And we're not destroying the oceans. By using this we're using natural wave power to get that nutrient up with an upwelling technique, and we then live in the kelp, which is essentially a carbohydrate, right. So when you know you're taking it from one location, and changing it into another province and putting it into another location,

Katherine Ann Byam  8:30  

It must have been an incredible undertaking for you to start a company of this nature, get under the science into them into the brand building into the mapping out of everything that you need to do. What was it like for you?

Howard Gunstock  8:47  

It's been an incredible income, I've really enjoyed it. What's fantastic is that we get an opportunity to create an entirely new business model, we get to do something that's never been done. And that takes an element of strategic conceptual development and turns it into something operational. Nothing that I've done on this volume at this level ever before in my life. But what's been really useful is knowing what the outcomes should be. You can then reverse engineer some of it. That's sensible. That's what I've been focusing on and knowing what the outcome goals are and what the end product is and enables me to build that invisible bridge between operational activity and strategic plans.

Katherine Ann Byam  9:39  

So tell us about the business model of carbon capture.

Howard Gunstock  9:43  

So I had the idea of being able to pay for something to do with capturing carbon was the bit that really started I guess, the worm in my head more than anything else. And I realised that actually, it's not about having a green idea. It's about being able to monetize something that other people want to get rid of a waste product, CO2. And if you can find a demand and a buyer for that, that's brilliant. I think the original part of the idea came from a story that I heard about a guy who went round to large corporate headquarters and was starting to get paid to pick up their coffee grounds.

And then what he did was he got the coffee grounds and put it into, I guess, fertiliser. And the coffee makes the plants grow faster, right. Like that's a brilliant idea. So he's getting paid to take the grounds of coffee, and also getting paid to sell the fertiliser. What a brilliant idea. And that in itself was part of the dual model for Carbon Kapture. We can capture the carbon and make oxygen and take carbon out of the CO2, freeing oxygen and all the other brilliant benefits of doing that. And there's a demand in the market, I believe, for that product. But at the same time, when you've captured the carbon, there's all this kelp. And that's, that's like, there's something that needs to be done with that.

And then when we found the idea of what the and there are multiple uses for kelp, but the feed and fertiliser will have the most environmental impacts. And then what you're then doing is then finding additional streams of income, right? You're trying to find out, okay, this is a new idea people will want to buy into it. There are going to be businesses that want to attract into it. And then you're thinking, So there's an element of people who want to buy the carbon but there'll be farmers that that will benefit from it.

And then all of a sudden, you're creating a really viable story that will give us the advantage over the large multinational corporations because this is going to be a people-growing business. This is a mindset, this is about changing behaviours, and finding ways that people will agree to do something, not an individual approach or one string approach, a multi-strand approach. That's different. That's not being done.

Katherine Ann Byam  12:15  

I think you should explain to our listeners the two-sided aspect of your business model.

Howard Gunstock  12:20  

It's based on everyone taking ownership. So typically, what's happened is, you'll have a great activity, or whatever it is to benefit the environment. So let's say plant trees, great activity. One, one thing, plant trees get money. But what you don't do is get other revenue streams from that. So my thinking is if I can get a revenue stream, from people who really care about the environment individually, and want to reduce carbon, if I can get a revenue stream, from companies that want to do the right thing, by sponsoring activities that are really going to have an impact on the environment, by getting individuals to invest and give them a product and a portfolio that can give them some sort of remuneration.

And if we can get involved in green bonds and services, that's another revenue stream. In addition to that, there will be some financial support they'll be able to get from governments, and also probably from some local councils. Because wherever we decide to grow our kelp in the UK, or wherever, one thing that you will know is that when you grow kelp, there will be an increase in the development of maritime life such as fish. And if you live in a seaside resort, so or seaside town or have ever lived in there, they pride themselves on being able to get a locally sourced fish issue that we have in the UK is we've depleted that this is a nursery for fish. This will be an incredible development and give and give, you know, incredible new lease of life to some of these fishermen that are without stock.

Katherine Ann Byam  14:14  

What is the impact that you expect to make as carbon capture?

Howard Gunstock  14:19  

The farm is one hectare. To be able to do that, to be able to have a significant impact on the environment. It's about getting two gigatonnes out of the ocean. I believe we can ramp ourselves up to doing that relatively quickly. There's a lot of good intensity and a lot of goodwill from people all over the world. But we don't have is clear vehicles on how to make those adjustments. There are companies and countries that are doing similar activities and I'm all for them. I just don't think they've got what we've got.

Katherine Ann Byam  14:56  

In this model in this model of circular economy and my business quite sustainable and relevant, are you considering collaborating with some of these other people who are trying to do the same thing?

Howard Gunstock  15:11  

We are. This is not a closed book this is about this is a collaborative approach. We've got partners currently, around the UK, we've got partners in the Philippines and Australia. And we will be developing networks, anywhere that opportunities open up to us. This is not that I might be running this show. But this is a collaborative approach and the team that got us to this stage, we wouldn't have got to this stage if it wasn't for a collaborative approach. I've definitely not got all the skill sets to do this. I just, I've got a good idea along with my business partner, and we're gonna run with it.

Katherine Ann Byam  15:52  

So Howard, tell us where you expect Carbon Kapture to be in 10 years’ time?

Howard Gunstock  15:58  

We have quite a clear plan. We need to get to 10,00 one-hectare farms globally. That's a huge growth curve. Since Chile, we believe that we can grow our farms on a big scale using our investment model to facilitate that growth.

Katherine Ann Byam  16:22  

What support can people give to this journey?

Howard Gunstock  16:26  

Well, we're currently in fundraising mode. It’s like, share, follow and donate, we're building our first four-hectare farms. For sometime January, February of this year, we've got a crowdfunding page. Please donate towards that we would love to get your your your support for that. Plus. the more donations we get, the faster we get farms in the water. I am really keen on having conversations with people in HR and CSR. And anything to do with that green movement. Any directors who were akin to wanting to do the right thing by our planet because this is an opportunity that hasn't been around before. And we believe that it will have really transformative effects on our oceans.

Katherine Ann Byam  17:22  

Hey, this is an excellent chance for people to participate, and to become a part of the movement. So I'm keen to support you.

Howard Gunstock  17:31  

Thank you very much.

Katherine Ann Byam  17:32  

So my final question to you today would be - there are a lot of people who are thinking they want to do something green, they want to do something sustainable, something relevant. What would you recommend to them and get started on a green business and a green business idea?

Howard Gunstock  17:51  

That's a good question. I think when you're when I was thinking about whether this is important, whether this is doable, you have to be focused on the fact that we are in a capitalist world. And however much your intention is great, it has to make money to have an impact. That's really the bottom line. I'm where I'm trying to find a way to monetize a waste product, which is carbon and CO2.

But if you can find a way to make your business pay, that gives you leverage, it's better than just the intent. Not saying that the intent is not good. If you want to help Friends of the Earth and the World Wildlife Fund and plant tree, I'm all for everything. The solution to the climate crisis is not it's not a one magic pill. It's a multiple strand approach. It's a multiple strategy approach, tree-planting living sustainably, driving, driving, driving, electric cars,  switching your providers, going vegan, not flying, all of those are excellent. But when you find a way to make it pay, people are really interested - they want an avenue. There just isn't enough.

Katherine Ann Byam  19:26  

Such great advice. Thank you so much, Howard. It's been a pleasure hosting you. And thank you to our listeners.

Howard Gunstock  19:32  

Thank you so much for having me. Have a great day!

Katherine Ann Byam  19:37  

Thanks for listening. This podcast is brought to you today by the depot virtual service hub. The virtual service hub is our digital transformation strategy service that supports startups needing to optimise their processes and their performance to scale up growth. We also help medium-sized firms in modernising their operations and Our services include sustainable strategy, analytics, and tech enablement. To find out more contact Katherine Ann Byam on LinkedIn

About this Episode

I met Malika over a question. I was consumed by the idea that people who do really great things, do so because they ask great questions. I shared this thought in a virtual social networking group and Malika chimed in - As artists, this is exactly how we work. We seek to ask questions only the individual viewer or consumer can answer. if the question is answered, the piece loses interest for us.

In this episode we discuss

1. How culture and diversity influences creativity
2. How she combines mental and physical challenges to open new portals and generate new ideas
3. How she uses her environment to stir her creative genius, no matter the setting.

Born in Morocco to Austrian and Moroccan parents, Malika is a visual artist and photographer, who cites her diversity curiosity and connectedness as inspirations for her work.

Having lived in various countries, without her family from an early age, she identifies with a feeling of belonging to everywhere, and being the foreigner as well. She learned to exploit this polarity in her art and photography, creating different mosaics of culture and a universal perspective, shaped by her natural optimism and hope.

Her travels and work have taught her to seek the similarities, common wisdom, and shared mythologies of the ancestors, rather than the differences and boundaries that disconnect us.

Malika’s work has been exhibited on four continents, and in cities as diverse as London, Marrakech, Los Angeles, and Seoul. In 2013 she also delivered a masterful TedX talk on her travel along the latitude line 34.

Malika was also a qualified personal trainer and holistic lifestyle coach Kettlebell athlete for a decade in London. She is also a fully licensed skydiver and skydiving camerawoman and created a personal photography project while in the sky.

” we are made of Atoms, ideas and stories, for if we don’t act on our ideas they don’t become stories. “ Malika Sqalli TEDx Casablanca 2013

To view Malika's work, you can access it here

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Episode Transcript

Katherine Byam  0:02  

Malika, I'm sure all of my listeners are dying to meet you. Welcome to Where Ideas Launch.

Malika Sqalli  2:31  

Hi, Katherine. Thank you for having me.

Katherine Byam  2:34  

So I wanted to get you online because I know that you can teach my listeners a great deal about creativity. You have such a colourful backstory. You were born in Marrakech, your father is Moroccan, your mother's Austrian, you've lived in London, you lived in LA, you lived in Paris, and now you live in Battersea in Austria. Tell us about what those cultural experiences have brought to your life.

Malika Sqalli  3:04  

So being from a mixed cultural background already teaches me that there are many ways of approaching life There are many ways of thinking there are many rules from one country and the other. And it showed me that nobody has the ultimate answer. It's just that some answers work better for some and some not so well. And it resulted in the feeling of belonging anywhere and everywhere, and nowhere at the same time. So for me, often being on the road is where I feel at home, going somewhere, I don't know. And so yeah, I'm quite lucky to have been able to, to feel more global, and not get stuck into who's right and wrong.

Katherine Byam  4:03  

Let's get into this idea of how cultural diversity adds to your art. So you're an artist, and you've worked in very varied, places in the art are very varied types of arts. Tell us about where you've worked and what cultural diversity is brought to those elements.

Malika Sqalli  4:23  

That's interesting. I had never made the connection between my diverse background and the different tools that I use in my work. That's interesting, because, indeed, I've used installation work, I've made embroideries on photos, I've had instant sculptures and made little animations. Lately, I've used photography a lot. And I've also painted on photography on photographs. So I've used the tools that fitted my message like a vocabulary. I've worked with more abstract concepts, and I've also worked with indigenous cultures, where, in fact, we go back to the topic of belonging and identity. I was fascinated, but by cultures that wear their identity on their face through facial tattoos, and this probably really spoke to me because I don't have this feeling of belonging to one culture. So that was, that was also very enriching to see people who have this sense of identity and roots and are prepared to wear it on their face,

Katherine Byam  5:44  

I get excited every time we start talking about art and your cultural experiences. So we also talked about the mountains a lot. You tell me that you you love going up to the mountains and taking a call dip in a lake, I can't imagine what that's like, it's not something that I do. But tell our listeners what this means for your work, and how you're able to use this as part of your creative drive.

Malika Sqalli  6:12  

Okay, so this is a big mountain to climb actually, and this is a big topic. And I have discovered the mountains quite late actually. And, and it came from a frustration that I had, and that I wanted to feel things a lot more. And I will start by saying that. For me my artworks, I don't see them as something visual, but I see them as something that needs to instigate emotions. I want people to feel something not to see something. And I was a fitness coach for a long time I did boxing and kettlebells so I was very incarnated.

And I needed to find another way to incarnate myself in my work. So the mountains to me are multi-faceted they are big metaphors of life. Because in life, I think we climb mountains, we go down, climb again, we go down, we go to valleys gorges, we stay up for a while, and nobody likes to go down. And it's a bit like that. It's one of the best metaphors I think we have for life. And climbing mountains is also learning the right to be old. It's earning the landscape. It's timing it, it's taming it, because when we drive, and I had just done a long project, driving, just before I started learning about discovering the mountains, all this travelling that we do with planes and cars - they're not human scale.

 But when we climb a mountain, we go back to our speed, we go back to a time in our humans time, as opposed to the speed that we are encouraged to live by. So for me, mountains are very important. And this is maybe why now I'm quite happily living in the mountains.

Katherine Byam  8:21  

Wonderful. So you also do skydive photography. I think my listeners are probably sweating right now. Tell us about how you got into this field.

Malika Sqalli  8:34  

That was an answer to a question about a problem I had. It was during this time, I was doing a project around Latitude 34, which linked my hometown with the town I was living in Los Angeles, and the number of years I was on the planet. This was a very impulsive project I had. It was just an idea that popped in my head and I acted on it. And the line of the road, the yellow line I was tracing on the road became a metaphor for life. And then I played with that concept and I shot pictures where I was tracing the line because sometimes we don't know where we're going and we have to trace it.

At times we fall off the line. I wanted to depict how the sky's the limit or ask whether the sky is the limit. So I get to take my yellow line up and I shot one shot a few images where I flew a ribbon up in the sky and that was just not convincing to me. And I decided I needed to go up there and shoot my picture really in the sky. And this is how I called a skydiving center and told them I needed to learn to fly and I did not measure the consequences of this because I was 37 years old at that time.

 I was not completely fearless, you still have filters, the older we get. And I had no idea how to have four licenses for this and that I was going to be petrified for 50 jumps. And but I had a goal I had to target. And I think this was what matters. And fear was anecdotal. And the goal was what mattered. So this is how it started.

And then I did a series of images of their photos because I figured there was no artist who actually did a series of creative images up there. So I would take props with me and shoot and shoot colours, basically splash colours up in the sky in the same way and artists would intervene on the landscape through land art, or paint over a picture. And then the club asked me to do the videos for that tandems. So it was completely unplanned. It was total serendipity.

Katherine Byam  11:06  

It's so crazy. I am just excited. I want to grow to do something different now just listening to you. So how would you recommend our listeners approach creativity? How do they embrace creativity if they have what they feel might be monotonous jobs? How would you ask them to open their minds?

Malika Sqalli  11:28  

Okay, so I will, I will say before that what we create does, and then I'll say how to tackle this. I'll read a quote from a photographer. And she says that "photographers are investigators, the unconscious obsession that we photographers have is that wherever we go, we want to find the theme that we carry inside of ourselves." So in other words, what I see is a synthesis of who we are.

And what we give to see is also what we are. So creativity is also a way to know who we are. It's a double mirror, we show what we see. But it also shows us. So for this to be creative. We really need courage and curiosity. With courage, we have to drop our filters, we jump into cold water, and it can feel daunting, because somebody might say, this is really bad - what you've done, or it's just not good.

But being creative does not mean we have to be the best, we have to make a masterpiece. And we are masterpieces in the making because we always sketching something that will become better later. And so we have to have the courage to take action. And since ideas, our ideas our answers to questions and they come from a line of inquiry.

Malika Sqalli  13:23  

It can be hard that to have people look at what we do, it can be really hard. And that's where it takes courage to do it in an authentic way not trying to be like someone, not trying to emulate, we can be inspired but it will it has to be authentic and come from the heart and from the gut. Curiosity is where we find all the seeds that have the potential to become ideas and artworks.

Malika Sqalli  13:59  

And I also think that we are a kind of alchemist, where we take all these seeds, all these different things, all these different elements, and with our own personal little chemical reaction, we produce something new. In the same way when we learn from many people, we make our own idea of something. We don't just copy and paste and creativity is this little magic.

Malika Sqalli  14:36  

This is my transformation. This is why we transform things. We take a lot of it a lot of the what's around us and we transform it into our own personal way of expressing what we have to say. Really courage and curiosity I think are what will help your listeners be creative without holding back

Katherine Byam  15:03  

Malika, how do we get out of our own comfort zones to get out of our own way?

Malika Sqalli  15:08  

I will start by saying that going out of our comfort zone does not necessarily mean high adrenaline, thrill-seekers, thrill activities like skydive and things like this. These activities - they do just that. They give us thrills, and they give us a hit, they give us a kick, a dopamine kick which is why they can get very addictive for some of us. They can be very empowering. They can be very euphoric.

They can have this feeling of achievement which can be very beneficial to get going and get started on things and yes - feel empowered, which we know can have a great carry over in whatever we do in life. However, I am not sure if it really has an impact on creativity per se. I have many fellow skydivers who I would not qualify as creative. So I think that going out of our comfort zone is something that can contribute to creativity.

But it has to be nearly like a way of being a way of life, a lifestyle, and one that is based on trust. And what I'm trying to say here is that going out of our comfort zone does not have to be high, adrenaline does not have to be extreme. It can be speaking up. It can be telling or saying our opinion when it's completely divergent from everybody else. It can be traveling to a country we've never been to and doing it alone. It can be going out in the crowd when we don't like crowds. It can be really soft things softer things.

And this I equated to some kind of character and brain gymnastic. So it's all down to flexibility, creativity comes down really to flexibility. In the same way, as when we learn various languages, our mind becomes a lot more flexible between languages. And we can have don't get stuck. If there is one word we don't understand, we can make it up. So it's really about this flexibility in the way we approach things.

The other thing, I think that is very important for creativity. And I'll quote a critic Lyle Rexer, who told me when I was in a residency where he was taking part. He told me that my as a man, my images take him to a place in his heart, he does not usually go. And this is a bit of that. Out of the comfort zone can also be going within in places we don't normally go. It's this inquiry again that we were talking about the questions. We going to a little corner that we are we don't know how it looks like. We're going to investigate.

And this is one of the keys. And this can only be done with an open heart to be really authentic and really moving in touching. It has to not be driven just by the head and logic and whatever filters we acquire as we grow and go through life. So this is also why I think that artists are heart openers because it does require this attitude. And this is also why I created this group called Heart with Malika with capital to try and help people drive their creativity through their hearts.

Katherine Byam  19:15  

I love this. I have been so excited by this. And I'm sure my listeners will want to learn more about you. How can they reach out?

Malika Sqalli  19:23  

I have a website. It's malikascalli.com. And I also have a Facebook group where I talk about all things creative and how that can also have a positive impact on everyday life and on knowing who we are. Because when we know who we are, we know where we are going.

Katherine Byam  19:46  

Thank you and thank you listeners for joining us for Where Ideas Launch. See you soon.

Katherine Byam  19:54  

Thanks for listening. This podcast is brought to you today by the depot virtual service hub. The virtual service hub is our digital transformation strategy service that supports startups needing to optimise their processes and their performance to scale up growth. We also help medium sized firms and modernising their operations and Our services include sustainable strategy, analytics and tech enablement. To find out more contact Katherine Ann Byam on LinkedIn

About this Episode

Where Ideas Launch was curious to learn what inspires the world's #4 Management Thinker.

We asked Alex these 3 questions:

• What’s your why – what question gets you out of bed every morning with a burning desire to solve it?
• We know in our world today we have a burning platform of sustainability. What do you currently see as the role of business in solving these problems?
• We know from your work that Innovation is heavily influenced by a company’s culture. What are the top 3 things that companies with a great innovation culture do to sustain that culture and expand their economic lives?

Dr. Alexander (Alex) Osterwalder is one of the world’s most influential innovation experts, a leading author, entrepreneur and in-demand speaker whose work has changed the way established companies do business and how new ventures get started.

Ranked No. 4 of the top 50 management thinkers worldwide, Osterwalder is known for simplifying the strategy development process and turning complex concepts into digestible visual models.

He invented the Business Model Canvas, Value Proposition Canvas, and Business Portfolio Map – practical tools that are trusted by millions of business practitioners from leading global companies.

Strategyzer, Osterwalder’s company, provides online courses, applications, and technology-enabled services to help organizations effectively and systematically manage strategy, growth and transformation.

 His books include the international bestseller Business Model Generation , Value Proposition Design: How to Create Products and Services Customers Want, Testing Business Ideas and The Invincible Company published in Spring 2020. To learn more about Alex's work you can subscribe to the Strategyzer news letter by clicking here

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Episode Transcript

Innovation expert, Dr. Alex Osterwalder has created and tested tools for simplifying strategy development processes for businesses and emerging business ventures. He works by turning complex concepts into digestible visual models. Examples include Business Model Canvas and Value Proposition Canvas.

He believes that for a company to be truly sustainable, it must be able to solve a problem and create value for society, its stakeholders, and more importantly and ensuring that its employees have an optimal work condition, enjoy their work, and go home happy. There is a need for companies to transform themselves into sustainable models that are crisis-resilient and that is where their work comes in to help companies reinvent themselves through the innovation they incubate and launch at Stragegyzer.

Key points:

• Technological Innovation can help businesses to be more sustainable 
• Business organizations must have a profound “why” that brings value and creates an impact on society
• If a company is sustainable and crisis-resilient, it is able to serve its purpose and create value to its most important stakeholder, its employees

Katherine Ann Byam  0:02  

Where Ideas Launch - The Podcast for the Unexpected Innovator. 

We are all incredibly creative, but maybe we’ve forgotten how. I spent my career working with people from more than 150 countries traveling the world and experiencing cultures, and what have I found? Creativity is everywhere. We've got a gargantuan challenge facing us, as we need to redesign a more sustainable planet. This podcast explores modern-day innovation in the age of sustainability. I interviewed some of the most prolific thinkers, creators, and educators on their journey to create sustainable incomes and businesses. My guest tonight will teach you how to be creative, create business models and explore curiosity with the courage to level up in your career. Join me every Wednesday for a new edition of “Where Ideas Launch - The Podcast.” Welcome to our episode. 

Dr. Alexander Osterwalder is one of the world's most influential innovation experts, a leading author, entrepreneur, and in-demand speaker whose work has changed the way established companies do business and how new ventures get started. Alex is known for simplifying the strategy development process and turning complex concepts into digestible visual models. He invented the Business Model Canvas, Value Proposition Canvas, and The Business Portfolio Map - practical tools that are trusted by millions of business practitioners from leading global companies. Strategyzer, an Osterwalder company provides online courses, applications, and technology-enabled services to help organizations effectively and systematically manage strategy, growth, and transformation. His books include the international bestseller “Business Model Generation,” “Value Proposition Design: How to Create Products and Services Customers Want,” “Testing Business Ideas,” and “The Invincible Company” that was published in Spring 2020. So I'm excited to welcome Alexander Osterwalder to “Where Ideas Launch - The Podcast.” 

So, Alex, you were ranked Joint No.4 thinker in the world. Your books are staples in universities and companies across the planet. And you are creating methods that change the trajectory and outcomes of many businesses. I believe that business leaders, especially the influential ones, have a burning unanswered question that propels them forward. Alex, I'd love to know, what's your “why.” What questions get you out of bed every morning with a burning desire to solve them?

Alexander Osterwalder  2:47  

Good question. What gets me out of bed every morning. I just love what I'm doing. You know, making business tools to help people do a better job is something I really enjoy. You know, when we see people and companies who can innovate can't innovate. We ask ourselves. So what's still missing? What's wrong? We don't blame the companies. We don't blame the people. We ask ourselves. And when I say we, it's with my co-author, Yves Pigneur. We ask - what are the tools and processes that are still missing? - or unclear? You know, where could we contribute to help them do a better job, to create change, or to create impact. And then the fun part is once we kind of figure out the challenge, we try to work on it, we play around with different concepts. And then we prototype tools that we test with real business people out there and try to make them better and better. And we're very visual in the work we do. So then we write books around the tools around the topics, and it's just a fun process. And then, of course, it's very gratifying when you see people using the tools, reading the books, and actually making a difference. So that's what gets me up every morning.

Katherine Ann Byam  4:07  

That's fantastic, Alex, we know in our world today, we have a burning platform of sustainability. And I don't just mean the climate. There are many levers of sustainable development, which include education, health care, water, and food for all, as well as general well-being the climate crisis. In your work, what do you currently see as the role of business in solving these problems?

Alexander Osterwalder  4:35  

Interesting question. How do I currently see the role of business in solving these problems? I really think business can make a difference, you know, great companies, they create value in four ways. So number one, they create value for customers. And we shouldn't underestimate that. You know companies create new products, new services, that create value that advances the world. Then, they create value for their organization, for the owners, for the shareholders, and that is very good as value creation. But of course, that's not enough, right? That keeps companies alive. We also, you know, love companies that create value for employees, a really important stakeholder. And don't underestimate the impact, you know, you can have as a leader, or as an owner or CEO of an organization. When you have 10 people, 100 people, 1000 people, 10,000 or 100,000 people, and you create better working conditions. You create a space where people can enjoy their work every day and do their best work. You'll actually create a better world that will have a big impact. You know, happy employees will go home and be happy, and, you know, citizens in their families and happy in society. So that's very important. But then there's the third, the fourth one. And I think that area is extremely important, which is, you know, making a difference in society, having an impact in society. And you know, take the founder of Patagonia, Yvon Chouinard, you know, he didn't settle for just building a company, the vision was to really, you know, have an impact on sustainability. So today, the mission of Patagonia is “we're in business to save our home planet.” So there, you know, they definitely, definitely make a difference, or Paul Polman, who was CEO of Unilever, you know, who reoriented the company, to focus not just on profits, but really on sustainability, and not at the expense of profits, but in harmony with profits. So I think that is very important and impressive. And I think you know, more and more, not just a nice to have, it's something that companies need to do, just to retain their employees and to attract new talent. Because today, you know, a lot of young people are, you know, great talents, they want to work for a company that they can stand behind, it's really making a difference. So creating value for society is something that's incredibly important for organizations. So those are four layers where no company can really make a difference.

Katherine Ann Byam  7:28  

Alex, it's so exciting to hear senior leaders in strategy, recognizing that a happy employee is a happy business. You know,

Alexander Osterwalder  7:36  

We spend a lot of time at work as employees. So those hours there are important in our life. So businesses who create a great work environment will really make a difference. And you know, take founders, like Marc Benioff, founder of Salesforce, he wrote a book on, you know, the power of business as the greatest platform for change, he wrote a book called Trailblazer. And he really makes a case for businesses as a change agent. And I really do believe that you know, when, when we work on innovation and help large companies reinvent themselves, we also have to ask ourselves and strategise? Why are we doing that? What's, what's our “why” and the reason is not just to help them make more money or for us to have great assignments that are interesting and pay well, no, it's also and I think that's the main motivation for myself, it's to help more to create more resilient companies that you know, can survive a crisis. And that means, you know, having more stable workplaces, because when a large company has to layoff 10,000 20,000, or 50,000, people, as has been the case, you know, in some companies with COVID-19, that is very, very painful for the employees, and it's very costly for regions and governments. So innovation is something that can really make a difference, not just financially, it's really something that can create enormous value for society. So that's what gets me excited about innovation, you know, creating value for customers, creating value for businesses, and of course, creating value, you know, for employees to create more stable workplaces and ultimately, some of the great innovations they create value for the society for the environment. So if you take Tesla, its the whole idea of not just building it, you know, electric vehicles, but building a company that is transcending industry boundaries, and, you know, focusing on solar energy in general with rooftop tiles with batteries, in order to fuel the electric vehicles. That's a great, great case of an organization that is making a difference. And there are more and more of those. And that's what's really exciting these days is that you have leaders and businesses that really understand that they can make a difference in the world. And they can be agents of positive change. And that's exciting.

Katherine Ann Byam  10:22  

Alex, thank you so much for that. You shared with us four great ways of creating and sustaining value in organisations, which is “focus on the customer”, “focus on shareholders”, “focus on employees”, “focus on society”. And this is the ingredient, the key ingredient to having a resilient company. Now, I know from your work that innovation is heavily influenced by a company's culture. I attended your Strategyzer masterclass in May.

What do you think are the top three things that companies with a great innovation culture do to sustain that culture and expand their economic lives? I'm very interested in how you have brought this into your work.

Alexander Osterwalder  11:03  

Great question, how about the top three things you do to help companies sustain an innovation culture, we created something that we called the innovation culture scorecard, innovation, readiness. And there, we focus on three areas. And they sound kind of trivial when you mentioned them like that, but I'll give you some examples. So the first area is leadership support, you know, around portfolio allocation, the time that leaders spend on innovation, etc, etc.

Alexander Osterwalder  11:41  

That's where leaders can make a difference, they need to invest in a portfolio of innovation initiatives. And not just one because in innovation, you can't pick the winner. Turns out actually that you'd have to invest in 250 projects in order to create one outlier. So when you're an established company, you need to invest in at least 250 projects to create a big success that can go into the hundreds of millions of dollars. Now, if you're a smaller organisation, that might be three projects to invest in to get one winner. But the ratio is that you can't pick the winner. And in the venture capital world, in the startup world, we know that for ages, because there is no venture capital investor that believes they can pick the winner, they've done this for a long time, and they still can't, so they invest in a portfolio, where one company they invest in, will create the return for the entire portfolio. So we need the same kind of logic in established organisation. So besides the execution business, the execution portfolio, managing the businesses that you have, you need to create a portfolio of innovation projects. So that's, you know, one of the themes in the first area leadership support, and investing in a portfolio and resource allocation. The second area is organisational design. So no company today doesn't have innovation activities. But mostly, it's innovation theatre. That's what Steve Blank, you know, the inventor of the Lean Startup movement, Rita McGrath, from Columbia Business School, myself, we call innovation theatre, it's for the show, there are activities there, but they're not real. So what you really want is to give innovation power, and that's a relatively easy thing to do. You know, so either it's the CEO who spends time on innovation, my favourite example is Bracken Darrell, who spends 40 to 60% of his time on innovation, or you need to have a co-CEO, who fully, you know, focuses on innovation. So a great example there is that Chinese company, ping on in finance and insurance, they transformed themselves to, you know, a company that transcended industry boundaries and became a tech player, when Peter Ma, the founder, said, we're gonna get disrupted, we need to invest in innovation. And he established a co-CEO with Jessica Tan, who focused entirely on innovation. So it wasn't somebody reporting to the CEO, you know, because then you kind of subordinate the innovation activities to the execution activities. No, it was at the same level of power. So it's very, very important that you give innovation power, either by having the CEO focus on innovation that symbolically signals that innovation is important. People will realise that it's not a career suicide to go into innovation, or the alternative is that you install innovation at the same level as the CEO. So both of these options give innovation power and signal to the company that it's very important. And then the third area of innovation culture is actually the easiest one. It's an innovation practice. So you need to establish the right tools and processes in your organisation, but also establish the right skills and experience. Because just like, you know, becoming a world-class manager, that you don't do that overnight. So becoming a world-class innovator, you know, you have to gain experience. I like to compare this to the medical profession, you know, a doctor, let's say, say, a heart surgeon, has to go through medical school, learn, you know, physiology, anatomy, for a very long time, and then become an intern, until you become a heart surgeon takes a lot of time, a lot of practice, the same in business, you have to learn the anatomy and physiology of business, to learn how it works. But you also have to practice because you can't learn business, from reading books, entrepreneurship, from reading books, innovation from reading books, just like you can't become a doctor or surgeon, just by reading books. So there are very strong similarities. So the right talent and experience in innovation is crucial, because it's a completely different profession than management. So those are the three areas you need to invest in leadership support, organisational design and innovation practice. And that's how you will help innovation become sustainable. In your organisation. It's fun, you know, to see with the Strategyzer, how we're getting into companies, and we do these assessments to see how companies are innovating or not, you know, they're performing innovation theatre. And then once you visualise that, the leaders really realise that they need to change, and they need to, you know, perform their innovation activities in a completely different way. So innovation, I think today's growing up is maturing, and companies are really realising that what was good 5-10 years ago is not good enough anymore.

Katherine Ann Byam  17:17  

Alex, thank you so much for joining us on Where Ideas Launch - The Podcast. This session was so informative, so indicative of what makes a company strong and resilient. Thank you for all the work that you do. And we look forward to you joining us again in the future. Thank you, Alex, and thank you to our listeners. 

Thanks for listening. This podcast is brought to you today by the Dieple Virtual Service Hub. The Dieple Service Hub is a digital transformation strategy service that supports startups needing to optimise their processes and their performance to scale up growth. We also help medium-sized firms and modernising their operations and our services include sustainable strategy, analytics, and tech enablement. To find out more contact Katherine Ann Byam on LinkedIn

About this Episode

Where Ideas Launch - The Podcast for the Sustainable Innovator had the pleasure of interviewing Isabelle Chaboud on her insights on how luxury brands are becoming more sustainable.

Isabelle is an inspiration to her students past and present, as she does finance with style and flair. Her articles have been viewed more than 350000 times, a testament to the value she brings.

This podcast explores:

1. The financial impact of the pandemic on luxury brands bottom line.
2. The trends in sustainable change and whats driving it.
3. The upskilling needed by people adversely  impacted by the pandemic.

Isabelle Chaboud is an Associate Professor in the Finance Law and Accounting department of Grenoble Ecole de Management. Since December 2018, she has been Programme Director for the MSc in Fashion Design & Luxury Management and since September 2019, responsible for the MBA Brand & Luxury Management specialisation.

Her main areas of teaching are financial analysis (especially in the luxury sector), auditing and international accounting.She teaches or taught in Grenoble, London, Paris, Berlin, Marrakech, Moscow, Tbilisi (Georgia) and Singapore.

Before joining Grenoble Ecole de Management in 2001, Isabelle worked for 7.5 years for PriceWaterhouseCoopers in Lyon, France where she was a financial audit manager. She had clients in various industries as well as in services. She was part of the European Internal Audit team of PwC and worked in Spain (Madrid) and Portugal (Lisbon).

Isabelle is a French native but lived for more than three years in the United Kingdom, two years in Germany, one year in the United States, one year in Spain.

She graduated from Grenoble Ecole de Management in 1992 and from the International Teachers Program (ITP) delivered by HEC Executive Education, Paris in June 2014. She regularly publishes intellectual contributions in different media. to read her article on this topic, click here.

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Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam  0:15  

I'm really excited to talk with Isabelle today because she was also my professor when I studied for my MBA, in 2016, and she was one of the most transformational leaders I've met in my career. So, thank you for joining us and welcome Isabelle.

Isabelle Chaboud  1:57  

Thank you so much, Katherine. It's really nice to hear. It's my pleasure to see you. This time outside class.

Katherine Ann Byam  2:05  

It's really wonderful to have you. So we're gonna get started by asking you a few questions about your mission so I like to talk to my clients to tell them that we need a mission statement we need something to drives us beyond the job. Tell us about your mission statement.

Isabelle Chaboud  2:25  

Okay, so my mission statement will probably be three keywords, people and sharing, learning, and passion. People have always been for me, probably the most important thing - meeting people, discussing with them, and sharing my own knowledge, not only in my country but internationally, we benefit all the different cultures, and that's something I always look for. I never stop learning I think since I was little, I always try to read, learn new things, and that was something that really matters a lot to me. It's probably why I studied Audit.

I work for eight years at PwC. Every week we had to audit a new client, a new business model, new industries, from chocolate to pharmaceutical to perfume, fashion, carmakers, always different, traveling as well. I think when you're passionate about something, you will always find time even if a day only has 24 hours, you can read more, you are more curious, you necessarily learn more. For me, those are the three most important things from audit to fashion to higher education, those have always been my motto.

Katherine Ann Byam  4:07  

It's so wonderful and refreshing to hear and because I used to be an auditor too and we all know people don't like auditors. So it's interesting for you to share how, how you actually used your experience from audit to develop the career design the career that you have now.

Isabelle Chaboud  4:23  

It's true, yeah, people don't like auditors. Manufacturers don't like to be controlled by auditors. They are afraid that you will tell them, "Uh-on that is not correct," "or it's your fault." But if you implement a good relationship with them, you try to explain what you are doing and that you want to bring added value, maybe to improve some internal controls in place, maybe to improve some efficiency, some aspects, it becomes different, so when you work on the confidence in the relationship, I think it's, it's different.

It's all a matter of personal contacts you have with people. I learned a lot from a methodological point of view, being very structured, organized, dealing with different tasks, it's management project. So that helped me a lot when I moved to higher education because it's managing different courses at the same time different locations. I was teaching in Grenoble, Berlin, London, Singapore, Moscow. Also sometimes may be different subjects with different audiences. So the methodology is the key in sharing the knowledge.

When I was at PwC, I did some training. When we merged with Coopers in 1999,  we became PricewaterhouseCoopers. Someone had to teach the new methodology and I volunteered in France in my office. They were looking for volunteers and I volunteered. I like it and it was really interesting to try to explain this new methodology to managers, partners, and I also train newcomers. So, methodology, training, sharing some knowledge were really the common basis that I used in higher education, financial analysis, and they switch to financial analysis of luxury companies. This is how little by little, I came to fashion.

Isabelle Chaboud  6:30  

You moved from being an auditor, being a professor to being a specialist in luxury brand management. That's really interesting. What's inspired your interest in luxury brand management.

Isabelle Chaboud  6:42  

I think it started when I was little, my mother was making bespoke wedding dresses bridal gowns and I used to see her in her atelier or sewing workshop. Sketching, drawing, meeting clients who were explaining what they were looking for and she was trying to draw the perfect wedding dress for them.

Then, she took me to suppliers to buy this silk with her so I went to the region with her. With such wonderful fabrics and then I could see her teaching sewing. There was always something in my mind that I kept for a long time and I always sort of gave birth, I do something related to numbers very structured and then I can use this to be on a more creative side and more creative industry, and I was interested in this craftsmanship aspect, in fact really understanding what's behind the numbers of these companies and how they are functioning.

Katherine Ann Byam  7:58  

I think that there's always, there's always a bit of your history and your past and your experiences that come to bear you as you grow and develop in your career so it's nice to see how you've connected that experience with your mom to what you're doing today, and I think she must be really proud. All right, so I want to pivot slightly and I want to get into the business of luxury brand management. And I think all my listeners are curious to know-how is the industry doing.

Isabelle Chaboud  8:27  

But the industry has been severely hit as most industries. BCG was expecting some 30% drops, before the beginning of the COVID. And it is confirmed, even more, if I give you a few numbers, talking about the key players who are LVMH, Hermes, Kering, and company Swiss Richemont. I can just give you some insights. For example, LVMH witness a drop of 38% in Q2 2020, which makes the drop of first-half revenue of 2020, by 28% organic, a constant exchange rate. So minus 28% is around 30%.

For Kering, it's minus 30%, first half of 2020, and minus 43.7%, for Q2, which is a huge drop. Hermes also witnessed dropped by 40% for Q2 but cumulated is minus 25% at a constant exchange rate. So, Hermes is the most resilient, out of all the key players. Richemont, the Swiss company which owns Cartier, Van Cleef, and Jaeger-LeCoultre witnessed a 47% drop in their first quarter 2020 sales. Richemont closed their books at the end of March so their first quarter from April to June 2020.

Isabelle Chaboud  10:18  

So Richemont has been severely hit and so they have to find new solutions to cope with the situation. And this gave a boost to digitalization so those who already had online sales, saw quite a lot, mostly in China. They witnessed a huge increase. Hermes, for example with 100% increase in their online sales in China. Chinese consumers or the tech-savvy buy a lot online.

Those who do not have online platforms had to partner with the marketplaces like for example Farfetch to help them, or they had to develop their own platform online at a rapid pace. In order to cope with the loss of business from closed stores.

Katherine Ann Byam  11:21  

I'm also curious to know how they're going to pivot out. Sustainability is beginning to reshape many industries, and I'm sure not the least of which is the luxury brand industry. Tell us about what, how they're dealing with sustainability.

Isabelle Chaboud  11:35  

Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's, it's one of the top priorities. I think now for most players. It comes from the consumer demands actually. Consumers want to know where they purchase the raw materials and in what conditions, how is the production process,, how do they deal with people have when they treat them, gender equality, hygiene and safety, and all those aspects, also the dyeing chemical for example they use and all those elements, so it's affecting the whole supply chain, and up to the end, the way they sell it.

This is why also the circular economy is booming. The demand for second-hand is, is absolutely on the rise. Companies like Vestiaire Collective or Rent the Runway are all seeing a huge increase in their selves because more and more people are mostly millennials are interested in buying secondhand products. So, if you haven't used items or garments that you can resell, you can make money and you can buy also other products, and it can also allow, I would say, other customers who would not be able to afford some luxury product to buy for the first time and some luxury products. I think it's affecting the whole supply chain, from raw materials production, and then selling channel, also omnichannel, and different, different ways of selling not just in stores but also and the new business model of the circular economy.

Katherine Ann Byam  13:26  

Beyond fashion,  it's also having an impact right. there are other initiatives that people are coming up with within the luxury space as well beyond fashion.

Isabelle Chaboud  13:35  

Absolutely. To give you an example, a Startup Ledisi is partnering with different companies to rent between so either business to business or business to consumer. For example, they had a partnership with LC and you can rent a suitcase for just a weekend or for two weeks and I think it's a fantastic idea, imagine you are a student, you live in Paris in a very small place you don't have enough room to store a big suitcase and you want to go to the US and so you can rent a suitcase just for two weeks (of course not right now probably with travel.)

It's a little bit difficult but I think there's a real, real business. People also lots of surveys report show people are more interested in the experience now, more than owning the product. So, this will also allow you to have an experience. I think it's also part of this circular economy and reducing the waste the pollution and giving a longer lifespan also to objects or different items.

Katherine Ann Byam  14:59  

Yeah, it's so interesting, thank you for sharing that. So, this is the last question so I really want to thank you upfront for all that you've given my listeners today. I think the session has been really interesting. But what advice would you give to the ones who are either out of work because of the crisis, or just coming on to the job market, what would you tell them what do you suggest.

Isabelle Chaboud  15:20  

Well, first digitalisation as we said, we spoke about luxury that is going online and maybe a little longer than the businesses but all businesses are online now you can buy cars online. I mean who could have imagined buying a car online before. so I think having some knowledge in digital marketing and the different platforms where you can buy in some marketplaces in luxury.

We have work marketplaces for those who are beginners, which means it's a tripartite relationship between the company producing the goods between the marketplace where you can buy the goods as a final customer. So if the company producing the goods, doesn't have its own platform,  they can use a third party, the marketplace to sell their products. This is the case for Farfetch for example.

And Farfetch is also experiencing a huge, huge increase. You may have heard Amazon is going to launch luxury items. They just announced the first partnership with Oscar dela Renta and this group. And so this is booming in all industries, fashion, luxury carmakers, now you can buy everything online, so I think it's really important to know this. You can find training also for free online.

There are lots of possibilities now, then sustainability, we mentioned that I'm convinced absolutely key there is I think a shift in the mindset of consumers, but also the need for force for the planet and people profit, the planet which we call the triple bottom line is absolutely fundamental so it covers all aspects as I said from the supply chain, the production, and the final distribution, and it impacts the finance as well.

Of course, sustainability really gaining knowledge on that, and circular economy the new business models, don't be afraid of being creative and innovate. I think that's right now really thinking outside the box I think is really, really something important. Being adaptive is very, very important, and having confidence because things are changing, it's difficult, but we need to keep the confidence and try to really believe in these new business models that are coming out and changing faster.

Katherine Ann Byam  17:53  

Thank you so much Isabelle Chabaud. Thank you so much to my listeners, this has been a fantastic day and I hope you've got a lot out of the session.

Where Ideas Launch – The Podcast for the Sustainable Innovator

Every one of us can be the change. In fact, everyone of us must. The most important thing we can do is stay in the question.

Where Ideas Launch aims to answer the tough questions of how do we sustain our world, by asking deeper and better questions. It aims to prompt change not by staying in the analysis, but by originating a new genesis.

This podcast:

1. Challenges the status quo: show you how to speak truth to power, in a way that sparks momentum for change.
2. Explore creativity from the eyes of educators, business people, entrepreneurs, and artists.
3. Examines sustainable business models, impact models and other ways to support the UN sustainable development goals.

Join us every week to look at our shared future from a new perspective, so that we understand the questions, that give rise to better ones.

Interested in reviewing your Sustainability Strategy?

Get in touch with me on LinkedIn?