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Episode Transcript

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Katherine Ann Byam 0:27

Hello, everyone and welcome to the show. This is Women in Sustainable Business, as well as Where Ideas Launch - The Podcast. We're doing a double show in this episode. So thank you so much for joining us live on the show tonight. We have with us Michelle Miller, who is a brand strategist on the West Coast of the US. Michelle, why don't you say hello to everyone. Hi, everyone.

Michelle Miller 0:51

It's great to be here. Thank you so much for having me, Katherine. My name is Michelle Miller, and I own Minty Made, which is a sustainable branding and web design studio. 

Katherine Ann Byam 1:01

Yeah, it's really wonderful to have you. And Michelle has been in the Women in Sustainable Business community for about six, seven months now. And she's been with us in the membership as well for just about the same time. And she's an incredible stylist and designer and all of these things. And she's now running a full-service studio and Minty Made. So I'm really excited to talk to her a bit about her journey to building this business and where it all came from and where she is now.

Michelle Miller 1:29

I'll start off with just a bit of my background. I have been in corporate and small business marketing for the past 10 years. And I most recently worked for a nonprofit that was based around getting women into construction careers. And I really did enjoy that job. What I found throughout most of my corporate career is just noticing more frequently the amount of waste, the amount of energy that's consumed by all these major corporations. And I actually sat on a couple of different small focus groups within those organisations to talk more about sustainability within the office space within the trade show industry which I was in for a very long time as well. And during COVID and the pandemic, I was able to take on more projects that were based around wellness and sustainable businesses. And that allowed me to go full time with Minty Made as of January of this year. So it's been an exciting year, businesses stayed steady. And even though more people are out and about travelling now, there's still a large push for getting content out in the world, making sure that you're differentiated amongst your competitors, and really showing the impact that each small business large business everyone has, as we're really in this all together for minting our global missions.

Katherine Ann Byam 2:55

Exactly. Thank you so much for sharing that. And that's I think that's really important. There are a number of sustainable brands out there now that are willing to make a change. So people who are prepared to not just say they want to change but to make change happen. And I really applaud it. It's something that's, that's so encouraging as we around. But we also struggle with scaling these businesses and making them leverage the impact that they really want to leverage. And I think branding has an important role to play in that I wanted to ask you, what are you? What are your reflections on the things people get wrong when they try to brand themselves?

Michelle Miller 3:30

Sure, I really talk about sustainable brain most of the time. And that's kind of has a double meaning in itself where people tend to just do a quick fix on their branding. They'll pick a colour that they like, they'll pick a font that they like, throw something up there, make a logo quickly. And they don't really design with their target audience in mind, they design with what they like what they think looks good. And that's not always what's best for your brand and messaging. So that's the number one, I would say common mistake that I see people making as they're starting out on their businesses. I also see people jumping on a lot of these trend trains. And for us in the eco-community, we're familiar with fast fashion versus slow fashion. And it really is the same when it comes to branding. There's a lot of trendy script fonts out there. There's a lot of trendy flashy websites that we see when we're scrolling through Facebook or Instagram. And I really tell people not to fall for jumping on that bandwagon and really sticking to what the roots are of your brand. All of my brand work is deeply rooted in strategy which is so important, especially for a business just starting out because it's an investment not only if you're DIY your own brands, that's a lot of your time that you could be building your business elsewhere, but also if you invest in a brand and or web designer, that's a large investment too because there's a lot of work that goes into that to make sure that your messaging is clear, and that you're reaching the customers or the clients that you're trying to serve. I would say one other mistake that I see is people creating a logo or a brand around one product or one service in particular. And because our businesses, all of us in this club are set up to scale, you don't want to box yourself into a logo that just has a photo of, let's see compostable utensils or something like that. Because if you offer more products down the road, then all of your brandings have to change. And you have to go back and revisit that.

Katherine Ann Byam 5:48

That's really, really good advice, actually. And pivoting a bit to what are the sort of key things that we need to think about in succeeding so just right now. At the moment, we're running a Copy Bootcamp in the club, but it's interesting to see how many people are making discoveries about their ideal client as they go through this journey of copywriting. What are the key things to make sure match up when you're coming to a brand strategist? And you want to go through what you want? What sort of things should you prepare? What is important to that process?

Michelle Miller 6:23

Definitely. Through my own strategy, when I work with clients, it's a couple of core pieces here, there's getting clear on your values. And what I learned through a course that I took called the Ego Citizen Course a couple of months ago, is trying to separate your own personal values from the values of your business because there are two different value bases there. And though you are the face of your business, like in my case, I am, with many small business owners, there's only the solopreneur in the mix, really hone in on what your brand voices as well. So values, brand voice... If your brand were a person, I always ask people to describe what their brand looks like, what their brand smells like, what their brand tastes like. And it really evokes all the senses around what your brand is aiming to accomplish and what your business goals are. Speaking of business goals, that's another question that I asked before I even work with any business owners is what are you trying to achieve? I really steer people away from "all I want more followers" or "Oh, I want more people to join my lives." It's all about reaching that end customer converting them into a buyer or a subscriber. And really having clear business goals, I think is the number one thing I'd say to have. Prepared when you talk to a brand strategist, a copywriter, a photographer, any service provider in general.

Katherine Ann Byam 7:57

Absolutely. These are important ingredients. And I was also trying to explain yesterday, the difference between an ideal client and a client. And I think it's really important for all of us to understand that having an ideal client does is not an exclusive thing. It's not like you don't serve everyone but it is about that brand focus, right?

Michelle Miller 8:17

Sure. One of the exercises I have my clients do is telling me about an ideal client. And then I actually create an ideal client profile for them where I write a little story about, let's say, Maria. Maria goes shopping at the farmers market every day with her reusable bags, she stumbles upon a bulletin board at the end of the farmers market sees a business card that that is intriguing and well designed. And that's how that purchase path works toward your business. And that's really helpful for people because they can start to see, "Oh, my, this ideal client avatar, even though they're not real or fictitious, is a person" that they can see that whole streamline of them finding out about their business and moving into inquiring. So I love going through that exercise with people, they really appreciate that when I asked at the end of our projects, what was your favourite part? They always say the fact that we were able to work together and come up with two to three of my ideal clients, and they really start to see how that can come to life. 

Katherine Ann Byam 9:29

Yeah, wonderful. So I want to pivot again about full-service studios. So I know that this is something that has been sort of trending of late. So people start off maybe with branding only, but then they start bringing in other services as they know you've done as well this year. And why is it important to bring those things together in terms of impact for your customer?

Michelle Miller 9:53

Earlier this year, I made a decision. When I speak to clients and they're interested in moving, I actually package copywriting, my web design, branding and photography all together because it allows me to coordinate and collaborate with both the copywriter and the photographer, both on a visual and a verbal and for copywritten standpoint. It really helps us all go in the same direction at once with what the brand voice is saying, what the messaging should be, how the brand should portray itself with imagery and such. And it's very hard to work disjointedly with either copy coming either from the client themselves or another copywriter, and kind of fitting that square peg in the round hole. When you're trying to fit it all together. It's really a team effort. And I'm of the belief that it should be approached that way. And it's made a huge difference in just conversion rates that I've seen for people's websites, people signing on or buying products or services. And I will never go back to the way it was before. And I think a lot of others are moving in this direction for the same reasons. It's these business groups like this that you started, Katherine are an incredible help to fostering that collaboration with others.

Katherine Ann Byam 11:20

Absolutely. So I think I think these are all wonderful tips. I want to now pivot to something that's more even more important for all of us as we're all based online pretty much every day. And this is about the sustainability of your website itself. And we like to do pretty branding shoots and have heavy images that look beautiful, but we know that this isn't good, either for the environment. So I wanted to talk a little bit about how to make your websites more eco friendly, or tips in that direction.

Michelle Miller 11:54

I would love to, in fact, I just read another book. I have it right here. It's called belief. I believe he's based in the UK, his name is Tom Greenwood. For anyone interested in this book. It's called Sustainable Web Design. It's a short read. But it has a lot of great tips and findings that I've added to my knowledge base. When you look at a website, as you just mentioned, again, back to the trendy things that are going on in the web design world, we see a lot of flashy graphics, a lot of animation, a lot of things that move and these are all large contributors to page weight. Page weight is a complicated formula to try and figure out what the energy or how much energy is being emitted from your website but it's a good baseline. You can measure that in data. There's a couple of other tools that I'll share in the group actually after we get finished up here that show how much or how green really enjoyed plugging my own website into there and seeing where it ranked. Some other ways to limit your energy consumption on your website is to opt-in or purchase your domain hosting from a green host. And there's a list of them. If you just type in green web hosting online, they'll come up. A lot of these hosting companies are committed to hosting their platforms, fueled by 100% renewable energy. And it's great that that's becoming more popular as I've seen over the years. I just switched mine over from GoDaddy which is a large hosting company here to Green Web Platform hosting. And a lot of people worry, "Oh, well their networks go down or is it as reliable and it is. It doesn't make a difference. A lot of the large platform hosting companies have downtime too. And I just sleep better at night knowing that I'm investing my money in a company that's committed to sustainability. Also, being mindful of the colours that you choose. This was a really interesting find that I had a couple of months ago. White space, you would think that on a website more white space is better because it's keeping things simplified, but it's actually the opposite dark colours use a lot less energy on your screen than white, light blues, bright colours. So that was very interesting for me to find out. Be mindful of your movement. So a lot of JavaScript code. I won't go to I won't go into too much of a nerd mode on the development side. But a lot of code that's on the website is unused. So think of it as you would garbage in the trash can. It's not there to be used anymore. There's no purpose to it. And so that's if you're working with a developer asking those questions about what's needed. You can accomplish a lot with compressed images with some streamlined code and really still deliver a valuable and memorable customer experience without having all of these different elements that don't really add to the experience at all. And then hiring a sustainable web designer that has these practices in mind that we'll walk through not only what materials you're going to print your marketing materials on, recycled paper, seed, paper, all of that. But someone that really knows the ins and outs of what it is to create a sustainable website. One more thing to add is the whole accessibility piece. It's very valuable if you can create a website that can load quickly and actually be accessed offline. As we're moving into more advertising into countries that don't have as fast internet speeds as maybe we do, it's very important for these websites to be accessible by those who have limited bandwidth.

Katherine Ann Byam 15:58

Really great tips. Thank you so much for sharing so much with the group and community. What's the direction of your business for the next few years? Where do you see it going?

Michelle Miller 16:09

Sure, I actually plan to host some workshops myself on sustainable web design so that either there can be tips helpful for people that are DIY in their own website, and maybe don't have the time or money to invest in a full rebrand or website design right now. And I would also be going to be focusing on creating specific web pages or landing pages for eco businesses to show what their impact actually is. Those would be more interactive, but not in a way that would create a lot of excess energy like I just talked about but really showing what difference that company or that small business is making. Because we see a lot of sustainability pages out there. It just has a short paragraph on why they're committed to sustainability. But Patagonia - that's one of the companies I admire greatly. They have a very detailed page about each of their business practices, how it contributes or limits global warming. And I want more businesses to have the opportunity to show that and really put numbers down to show their commitment and not just write about it in a sentence and hope that's enough.

Katherine Ann Byam 17:27

All right. Thank you. Thank you so much, Michelle. This is really insightful, and we'd love to have you back sometime in the future when you have new news to share about where you've gotten to with a sustainable web design. Thanks so much for coming to the show. 

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Episode Notes

Commercialisation

Preparing to go to market is separate from going to market; there are a host of other decisions that need to be made at this stage, principally around audience building and or client attraction. For product marketers, it includes critical supply chain decisions, as well as the choice of commercial strategy.

For service businesses, as well as product businesses it is about audience building, generating a buzz and excitement for your product, being  visible and  discoverable online, and the different paid and organic means to realise these objectives.

In this episode  we will be covering:

•       Operations Teams
•       Launching
•       Social Media and Organic Traffic as well as SEO (Search Engine Optimisation)
•       Paid Traffic – Advertising
•       Digital Technology you need in your business.

Launching

Launching is quite different from making your product or service available. It is about building anticipation with an audience you are actively building. Creating a sense of momentum toward a goal is the main thing here, as you don’t want people to purchase your product and not use it, this is waste, whether it be digital waste, or physical waste. You want to heighten awareness of the problems your product or service solves, or the lasting joy it will bring to the consumer, either through celebrating their ability to make responsible choices, or having something that lasts much longer.

Entire industries and a lot of wealth in the world has accrued to businesses that launch things that go from shop to landfill in mere seconds after entering the hands of the consumer. All the supply chain costs, poor wage rates, endless pollution, that create problems for city councils to take care of.

Launching a green business has to excite people about being responsible. It has to help them raise the lid on green practices that feel good, as opposed to unethical marketing, sales, and product strategies that leave us with a moment of pleasure and eternal regret.

I hope I painted that picture pretty clearly!

It’s case study time. I use some of my case studies not as examples of model businesses, but to explain the principles of what we can learn from the example. My first case study is Apple.

When Apple launches a product, people queue up physically or virtually to buy it.

There’s a big reveal, a demonstration of contemporary design concepts and all their marketing effort is directed at this single focussed product of the launch – They do not talk about any of their other products, although they still sell other products, by bringing audiences to their store or web page.

This is what launching can feel like for a green business if you study the art of making it happen for ethical businesses.

Maybe you don’t have the means to do a launch on the scale of Apple, but you can do a well staged launch using the audiences that you have. Wherever they are. This is what Season 3 of this podcast is for me, it's exciting my listeners to start amazing green businesses that excite people.

The fundamental principles of launching are to have a sustained effort at one period to launch your product or service to the world.

These are the broad steps you should consider.

•       Establish a launch timetable based on the size of the audience you need to build, and the strategies you will be using to build it.
•       Get your launch assets ready, with content plans, content pieces, behind the scenes, how I made this, gift promotions, incentives, pre-launch vouchers,  info sheets and checklists, quizzes all prepared in advance.
•       Design the launch experience, and the tangible or intangible outcome or experience you want your customers to have.
•       Determine all your in-person engagements to grow interest before the launch – Which forums you will be speaking in, and how you will show up in those forums. Curate these well to ensure you meet the audiences who would be interested in what you do.
•       Start talking about the key points of interest for the consumer through questions, sharing of stories, market research type teaser questions in places where your ideal audiences spend time. This can be digital or physical spaces.
•       Invite the audience to join some form of launch event. This can be in the form of:

o   Make it with me /or do it with me challenge for 3 to 5 days

o   A bundled offer – potentially with collaborators

o   A party of some kind that uses your product or service

o   A limited time promotion

o   A summit or series of speakers.

o   A marketing campaign through ads or other

o   A Masterclass

o   A waitlist

•       Share real experiences and or testimonials about your product or service.
•       Continue to build credibility by showing them what your product or service can do.
•       Be consistent, share stories, but pursue fair marketing.
•       Check your metrics throughout, to understand if any boosts are needed to get visibility right.

This is an intense process, but this is what it takes to launch well.

You do not have to launch in a big, controlled rhythm like this, but you are likely to generate more long-term traffic and sustainable income this way, than having to promote your product or service every week.

A sustainable business must not only be sustainable for the planet.  It must also be sustainable for you as the world or your community needs to benefit from the existence of your service or product.

Your values are key to helping you drive the outcomes you want for both the business and the planet. Building an audience is the most underestimated but critical element that we underestimate because we believe that people share our purpose and our passion.

The challenge with audience building is trust. If you start something new, even people who know you have reservations about trusting you.

In this internet age, it has really become self-fulfilling at times, as the bigger your brand gets, the more people trust you, but if you are not yet on the growth ladder, you need to find ways to get on it.

For all our planet friendly intentions, we still need to compete, sometimes with each other, but more significantly with brands who do things in less ethical ways.

If we plan to live and eat from our business, we need to make it viable, which includes competing with others, or finding the underserved niche, and sharing with them how your product or service will transform their outcomes.

The better you get at organic growth, the lower you can get your prices, but advertising as a strategy may be needed to build the initial audience, so consider those strategies well.

Throughout the experience of your launch, you need to have considered and prioritised customer service; this should be pre-designed but adapted as needed.

To run a sustainable purpose driven business you need strategy to achieve the objectives you have yourself in a metrics-oriented way.

And therefore, you need to document as much as possible, the whole sequence of events, with all your finances, and everything considered.

Launching summary

•       Launching is the most growth and revenue generating, cost concentrated way to bring a product to market.
•       It supports coordination of all marketing activity and messaging.
•       Grows supporters and fans.
•       Facilitates a boost in your income and recovery of development expenses.
•       Is it a barometer of future success?
•       Develops a pipeline of leads for future launches.
•       Concentrate your efforts.
•       Lobby supporters advocates and volunteers.
•       Leverage as many platforms as you can.

About this Episode

I'm joined today by Yvonne Phillip, a.k.a. Yves. She's a brand strategist, stylist and self-care advocate. She believes that you have to stand out to fit in. And not only do you have to stand out to fit in;  if women sustain themselves, they can sustain the world. She helps service-based professionals who feel that they are not being noticed or seen as the expert, not creating a connection with their ideal clients to get clarity, confidence and credibility with their personal and business brands through coaching courses and one-to-one services and events. She takes entrepreneurs and executives on a transformational journey that include their strategy, their style, and their self-care. The result is that they step up, show up, stand out and attract their dream clients with ease, authenticity, and without apology or overwhelm.

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Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam  0:03  

 Welcome, Yvonne, to Where Ideas Launch.

 Yvonne Phillip  1:19  

Thank you, Katherine, thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to join and be speaking with you and your audience today.

Katherine Ann Byam  1:26  

Wonderful to have you. Many people say that you need to start with branding when you're building a business. Is this true or false and why or why not?

Yvonne Phillip  1:35  

I believe that it is false. Despite working in the personal branding space, I think people need to understand who they are, and who their business is serving before they start developing a brand. So you can build a website, you can go on Fiverr and get a logo. But that's not the brand, your brand comes from a deep part within. So at the start of your business, you should be thinking about the development of your product or service and making sure that's high quality. You should be thinking about who your target audience is that's going to buy this product and service, and doing that form of research. And as you're doing that form of research, you will collate those ideas of the way to communicate with your audience because that is your branding. Branding is a communication or communication tool, whether it be in writing verbally, the visual images, and representations such as the fonts, colours, logos, etc. But if you start with your brand and your branding, you might be building a brand that isn't conducive to you, or that your audience is going to be attracted to and repel, what could be ideal clients rather than bring them into your world and build that connection with them for them to want to buy your product or service.

Katherine Ann Byam  3:00  

Yeah, that's really interesting. And I think this leads me nicely into the next one, which is as entrepreneurs, especially product-based ones we tend to hide behind our product, we tend to shy away from personal visibility, especially when we're micro businesses. And I want to ask you if this is a recommended approach because I think a lot of people think about their branding in terms of the product and not in terms of themselves.

Yvonne Phillip  3:25  

Absolutely, they totally do. And a lot of product-based businesses do hide behind their brand. I know in my intro, it says that I support service-based businesses but I do also say support product-based businesses. If you're a large organisation, a large business you have lots of money to throw at advertising and promotions, in-store promotions, etc. When you're fully-fledged, now open for business, but as a solo entrepreneur, as someone where you are your product or your brand you have to step up and show up because people buy from people. People don't buy just a bottle of perfume or just a Gizi wizard, whatever it was. They buy because they like the person in the advert. They like the way that the advert actually embraces a family if you think about John Lewis or Sainsbury's, etc. So if you have a product, you need to show up in photography, in videos with your products, you can't just put products out there, because people don't know anything about it. They have no emotional connection to a box or a bottle. So if you're showing up, people then decide, "Yes, I want to invest my hard-earned money and purchase that product from that person."

Katherine Ann Byam  4:51  

Absolutely. I guess a lot of fashion is linked to body image and confidence as well. And I think this fits nicely into why some of us hide behind our brands. How can someone use style to raise their self-perception?

Yvonne Phillip  5:05  

So style is a tricky one, because a lot of people that don't have body confidence, wear lots of big, baggy clothes because. They're trying to hide. And I think that the first thing that you need to start doing is with your body image is stopped following and looking at everybody else. Take them for inspiration. But your goal should never be to emulate that person because no two people are the same, not even identical twins are the same. There are differences between them. So with your body confidence, as long as you're healthy, need to start loving yourself. There are always going to be parts of your body that you don't like. I don't like my skinny arms, Katherine, I'm sure there are parts of your body that you don't like. But unless we're going to do something about it, we need to learn to start living with that. So when your star comes into it, it is about first of all identifying your body shape, and what clothes suit your body shape the best. Because I have a very slender body shape and am very flat-chested. So there are certain types of garments that I can't wear, but it's going to make me look even more flat-chested. For ladies that may be a little bit full around the middle, they need to wear clothes that bring you to know their waist underneath their bust. So there are ways that when you wear clothes that suit your body shape, you automatically feel a lot more confident. In addition to that, it's about wearing the colours that suit you. Because you can look in a shop in our high street brand and you can see something online that you really, really like. And then when you get home, I'm sure it's happened to you, it's happened to me a million times, you look at yourself in the mirror, and you think, "oh my days, what happens, it didn't quite look like that on the model." And that's because you don't have the same body shape as that model. So what you need to think about to improve your body image is to be comfortable with who you are, find the parts of your body that do like and show them off. Find out the colours that suit you and your body shapes. You can start wearing clothes that suit you. And it's a hell of a lot easier to shop and do that as well.

Katherine Ann Byam  7:29  

I absolutely agree. I'm moving into the sustainability space. And I know this is one of the pillars of your brand. The fashion industry is increasingly under criticism from poor employment and contractual practices from environmental harm caused by the production of the clothing and the waste that's generated to landfills, either through the sort of true fashion or even just bolts and bolts of cloth that are never used. So what are your reflections on where the industry needs to go? 

Yvonne Phillip  7:59  

Now, I think that obviously, COVID has hit the fashion industry extremely hard. And I do have some empathy for employees that have been affected by the pandemic. But what I think that the large brands need to start doing is be more transparent about the way that these clothes are made and stop making so many clothes. We always have more than enough or more surplus clothing, which goes into landfills which are damaging to the environment or ends up hot on sale. First of all, they need to be transparent about the way that these clothes are being made because a lot of the fast fashion brands are making clothes in countries where they're not actually paying the worth of the time and effort that it takes to make those clothes. They've been made in poor quality factories. Some of them have had major disasters. And then they're transporting those garments across the world which is having the carbon footprint of that transportation is huge. The fashion industry is the second most polluting in the world. So we need to start thinking about how can we make clothes that are sustaining only people so that they're being paid right but also the world that we live in - in this beautiful world. In addition to that, too many clothes are being made, and they're not being purchased. So yes, they may end up on the sales rack, but then if they don't end up on sales, they end up in landfills. So the fashion industry, if that's the case, give those clothes to charity. What we can do as individuals is not be such fast fashion consumers, because a T-shirt cannot be made for five pounds? So we're seeing that as a bargain. But really, is it a bargain because somebody had to pick that cotton, it's had to be processed, it then had to be made cuts, sewn into that T-shirt and then shipped to the UK. It can't that can't happen for five pounds. Corners are being cut somewhere. And I think that we as consumers needs to reflect on that. And really think about, are we making informed choices about the way we are buying fast fashion, throwing it away, and then buying more fast fashion because nobody's benefiting from this, apart from the owners of these companies?

Katherine Ann Byam  10:50  

Well said. What recommendations can you make to those who want to redesign their wardrobe for sustainability? So for example, I have been guilty of my own share of purchasing things, purchasing too many things, purchasing fast things. I used to travel to Miami a lot and pick up things out of outlet malls. Many of these things I still have, I refuse to let go of them. But I want to do something with my wardrobe, I want to be more minimalistic. I want to also adapt my clothing to suit my new body, my new body size, etc. What can I do?

Yvonne Phillip  11:31  

So I think that you're doing the right thing by not throwing away your outlet clothes. I love an outlet. If I'm going to buy something new, I will go to an outlet store or I will buy second-hand, or I will buy it sustainably from a sustainable or ethical producer or designer. I think that's what you could do. When I was first starting on this sustainable style journey, there was so much information out there that also contradicted each other because if you want to wear vegetarian on non-animal products, that affects the industry in one way. Then if you want to wear fair trade that affects something another way down the line. So first of all, you need to think about what is the cause that you want to stand for through your stuff. So for example, mine is ethical practices, fair trade and reducing waste. So let's go back to our previous question what I said about finding out your body shape, what colour suit you once you know that you can give your wardrobe in audit, and really think about what are the clothes that suit me now, and are they the colours that are going to show me off in the right light. Clothes that are no longer working for you, you can give away to charity, you may want to keep them, and then you can start building a wardrobe that reflects you. I would advise you to build a capsule wardrobe, which is a group of like 30 to 50 pieces, which you can interchange and intermingle with the rest of your wardrobe. And if you choose a couple of colours that you really like the colours that when people see you, they're like, "Oh my gosh, you look fabulous in that." Yeah, those colours. You can build a wardrobe that reflects you. And this is really great, especially if you're a business owner because you can also link it to your brand colours. Because with your personal brand, you need to be showing up consistently all the time, consistency is key. So if you're showing up in your brand colours or your brand pattern, or in a way that suits your brand and your style all the time, that's also going to build recognition in your brand. But the first thing you need to start doing is often know your colours and your body shape. Go through your wardrobe and see what is still working for you. Yeah, do not throw those clothes away. Give them to charity. Somebody else could benefit from them. Then think about a capsule wardrobe.

Katherine Ann Byam  14:13  

Brilliant, great advice. So I know that your work has been on billboards lately. Why don't you tell us about that?

Yvonne Phillip  14:20  

Oh, I'm so excited about that. Yes. I'm all about authenticity, I'm all about integrity, I'm all about sustainability. Now those that may have seen a picture of me you'll see me with my big Afro and I embrace my natural hair and in as a woman of colour or a black woman. And I work with a campaign called Project Embrace which is all about black women embracing their natural hair in the workplace because I don't know how you know whether you've been through this as well, Katherine. I spent years relaxing my hair because I was trying to fit in with meet your norms of what is acceptable with western society norms of what was acceptable, but I was damaging my self-esteem and not really showing up as who I am. So this campaign is all about shining a light on how beautiful how versatile and how professional afro hair is and can be. So I'm really, really honoured and pleased to be the stylist on that campaign, which is on a billboard near you. We're gonna be able to meet you soon. But I'm also going to be all over my social media. 

Katherine Ann Byam  15:38  

it sounds awesome. It sounds wonderful. And I definitely a share that journey that you've had. Even today, I live in Southampton, and I can't find a black hairdresser. I remember once going to a hairdressing salon that was predominantly white and asking if anyone could do my hair, and they told me that only the owner can, and I would have to pay double the price. This is the kind of thing that really makes you do your own hair!

Yvonne Phillip  16:09  

I live in London and I do have afro hair salons around. I choose to do my own hair. I do need to go and have a little bit of trim soon. But you know, that's the problem. You know, if you don't live in a conurbation, where there are large amounts of no black people in the community. It's either very, very expensive, or you get people doing a hair that doesn't we don't really, really understand it. And that's a shame, we shouldn't have to have to go through that. So hopefully this campaign will allow black women to embrace their own hair more, but also European hair salons to get a better understanding of our hair, and how to cope with that.

Katherine Ann Byam  16:53  

Absolutely. So where can everyone find you? This has been such a lovely session, I wouldn't want them to miss out on your goodies.

Yvonne Phillip  17:00  

Oh, yes. So you can find me on my website, www.yvonnephillip.com. There's a little quiz there that will help you to find your brand personalities and personality season. If you're interested in exploring your personal brand a little bit more, but some others quizzes are going to be launching soon as well. I'm on social media, Instagram and Facebook @yvonnephillipthesuccessstylist

and on LinkedIn and Clubhouse just Yvonne Phillip. So come and find me and say hi. Let me know that you found me through Katherine.

Katherine Ann Byam  17:38  

Wonderful. Thanks so much for joining me today Yvonne. 

Yvonne Phillip  17:42  

Thank you so much for having me, Katherine. 

About this Episode

Katherine Ann Byam (MBA, FCCA) is the wing-woman to your genius, and a business resilience / organic growth consultant. As a strategic partner to leaders,  she helps businesses design and embed effective strategies for responsible brand stewardship, to deliver outcomes that favour a wider stakeholder view.

In consulting she supports sustainable business development, resilience and business transformation projects. She is also a specialist in using Linkedin to generate organic growth and impact.

As a leadership coach, she works one to one with you as you go through any critical leadership changes; career transitions, starting businesses or scaling.

Her aim is to address solutions that consider society and environmental resiliency at their core so that her clients preserve their longevity and a fair return for innovation and ingenuity.

Her brands include Dieple Virtual Services Hub, Where Ideas Launch, Women in Sustainable Business, The Eco-Business Growth Club,  Diep Linked Agency Services, the Courageous Career Club and the WW Executive business club.

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Episode Notes

What’s the biggest mistake people make when they go to market?

They skip all the steps I spoke about before. They think that they would buy their product, therefore, others would. But there’s much more involved in taking a product to market.

If you run an existing business and you are struggling with growth one or more of the things below may be playing against you.

The main mistakes:

1)     Vague idea of an ideal client in mind.

2)    Designing a product that fits everyone so therefore it suits no one. That my friend is not even a onesie, and even if it was, no one would go out in public in it. Well, few people at least.

3)    Taking on any client, who isn’t a good fit for your services or you as a person. (don’t get me wrong, when needs must, but you can end up developing in a direction you don’t want to go as a business owner, and that will just make you hate your business!

4)    Pricing strategies that are not adjusted to the market or your place in it.

5)    A business model that is not fit for your stage of growth.

6)    A product or service that does not deliver on customer expectations.

7)    No niche in the way you approach the market.

8)    Using all social media and none of them well.

9)    No planning for your launch, including logistics coordination and supply chain, or audience building and awareness.

10) No understanding of the key metrics that drive your conversions.

11)  No identification of key resources is required to support the launch.

12) Failure to test product-market fit.

13) Lack of integrity or ethics in your data points

14) Tech fails.

15) Burnout and exhaustion because of inadequate self-care (probably we have all been guilty of this at one stage or another - but even if your business is your baby, you still need to put on your mask first.) good airplane logic never fails.

16) No clear brand aesthetic

We’ve covered many of the points above in past episodes, but by the end of season 3, we would have covered everything. This section is strategy, not yet executed. Before you launch, you will have more to do, but all the points will be available to you.

Let’s talk Business Models

Business models are how you place your value proposition in front of your customer. Your value proposition is a combination of the USP of you, and the general value the consumer receives from the consumption or enjoyment of your product.

 The best business models will do the following things:

•       provide an ample return on your investment
•       Maintain a diversified income stream.
•       Stay relevant to market trends.
•       Be responsive to changes in the market.

The key things that you need for a strong business model:

•  Offers at different price points, that address audiences at different stages.
•  DIY option
•  DFY option
•  A Passive or semi-passive dimension

Passive products or services require little to no input from you, except to set it up.

Examples can be:

•       Affiliate links for other’s products or services on your website.
•       A course on a platform that does all the marketing for you with good SEO
•       A product on a platform that does the marketing for you with good SEO
•       Investment income
•       Rental income
•       Service subscriptions/ Subscription boxes
•       Make your own boxes
•       Courses delivered in person across many people.

Some of the most popular business models

The way you execute the ideas above can vary. There are many mechanisms for business models that you can choose from. Some of the popular ones this year:

•       Freemium basic level free or low priced, you pay for the extras
•       Double-sided platforms (users are free, businesses pay to promote)
•       Membership subscriptions (products or services)
•       Consulting one to one
•       Razor blade method
•       Software “As a service” models
•       Franchise
•       Pay peruse/ Pay per experience.
•       Pay by tiers.
•       Rentals
•       Sharing Economy
•       Choose your contribution/ Donation.
•       Pay a % of the value received.

To build a decent go to market strategy, go through your numbers.

Financials

Start with the full business year in front of you. Consider the following:

•       Set a financial goal, and break that goal into months, quarters, half-year – depending on the way that you plan.
•       Set up your year into Quarters or half years and create a planning cycle around that.
•       Plan your holidays in. This may be your most crucial step.
•       Map your key sales events to key events in the wider world that bears some relevance to the product or service you want to sell.
•       This gives you an idea of the number of offers you need to have over the period of a year.
•       The alternative to this approach is burnout. So, plan.

Market Data

•       What response rates did you get at the research stage? How many people engaged with your surveys, and how many converted into filling a survey? It’s already an indication of what your conversion rate could be.
•       Competitors, what are they doing? Can you do something different that is perceived as unique by your ideal audience?
•       Audience engagement – understand how they are engaging now and why.

Product Suite

•       You then want to build a product suite that compliments your value proposition finances and chosen business models.
•       Your product suite will be your main offer.
•       Inside each main offer, you will have smaller offers, that are specific to the proposed customer stage or need.

This is how the product suite can work.

An offer within an offer is something you give either free or for a small additional fee, that closes the deal for the customer, and deals with their objections to the course, or their other desires that are linked to the service you provide.

For example. If you offer a travel service, your customers are into travel. You may want to create neat package deals for them but sweeten this with a loyalty card that offers a discount for their next purchase with you, or for items they will want to consume when they arrive at their destination.

Summary - Go to Market Strategy

•       Plan your year, and your quarters.
•       Create a portfolio model for your business, then choose relevant business models to support a diverse portfolio.
•       Have clear objectives and goals. Financial Targets. Sales Targets. Reach/ Lead targets. Budgets. Metrics.
•       Choose your business model based on what is useful for the stage of your business and the size of your audience.

You also need to consider Supply Chain and Finance. I have covered the supply chain in episode 34 – Sustainable Supply and Sourcing and I also have a special guest coming up to talk about Financing, so stay tuned, we are full of value.

Recommended resources

•       The Lean Start-up – by Eric Ries
•       Business Model Generation by Alex Osterwalder and Yves Pigneur. (actually, Anything by Alex and his team absolutely rocks).

About this Episode

Today on Where Ideas Launch, I have Fanny Rousseau joining us. She's a French "slow fashion" designer based in Brussels. Through her clothing brand, Trousseau, she empowers women to feel beautiful, safe and free in their clothes. She advocates for inclusivity by offering a large-size range, and custom sizing. She also helps other brands define their aesthetics and have a better relationship with the environment. Fanny, welcome to the show. 

The garment industry contributes over 10% of the annual greenhouse emissions and 20% of wastewater worldwide from textile dyeing and treatment. With its significant impact to the environment, the industry will have to reinvent itself and reform its resource-heavy supply chain. 

As consumers, our collective behaviour and the choices we make towards our clothing are important in reshaping the industry. 

In this episode, we talked to Brussel-based "slow fashion" designer and clothing brand owner, Fanny Rousseau. Fanny gives us a fresh insight into the inherent value that clothes bring to the person wearing them, the energy and the careful thought that is put into making each piece, and reasons why we should choose a "slow fashion" wardrobe over fast fashion products that pollute the earth.

Key Points:

1. Trousseau is a slow-fashion brand that empowers women to feel beautiful, safe and free in their clothes. It also advocates inclusivity by offering a large-size range, and custom sizing.
2. Brussel-based slow fashion designer, Fanny Rosseau helps other brands define their aesthetics and have a better relationship with the environment.
3. Clothes serve to protect us both physically and mentally. By wearing clothes that are measured and tailored to our unique style, size, and body shape, we feel safe, free and confident with our body.
4. By choosing clothes that are ethically sourced and produced, we are choosing to be responsible to the planet.

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Episode Transcript

Fanny Rousseau  0:55  

Hi. Thank you for having me. 

Katherine Ann Byam  0:57  

What inspired you to start Trousseau?

Fanny Rousseau  1:00  

I'm a trained fashion designer. So I went to school both in France and in Belgium to learn about how to make clothes. So I learned how to make good fashion culture. And then I went to Belgium to learn about the more ready-to-wear side of things. And during this part of my education, I learned everything that was wrong with the industry. And so I really did not want it to be part of that and I wanted to stay in Belgium. Belgium is a really small country and there's not a lot of job opportunities. So I thought why not make my own. So at 24 I decided to launch Trousseau which was a big hairy jump, because I just graduated. So I did not have a lot of experience. But I was really into learning and growing along the way. And also, I had this really specific experience because I am short, and I have a body that is not normal. So I do not have anything that really suited me. I always hated my body when I wore clothes but not when I am naked. I love my body when I am naked. When I wore clothes, I didn't really like my body. And I feel like a lot of women have this. So that's why I wanted to do made-to-measure so everyone could wear the clothes that fit them the best. 

Katherine Ann Byam  2:30  

Yeah. I think that's really a powerful statement because there's so much wrapped up in women's identity and their confidence and their ability to stand up for what they believe in. So much of it is wrapped up in how they look or how they think they're perceived. 

Fanny Rousseau  2:47  

Yeah, in the end that's the first thing everyone sees either in real life or in social media and stuff like that. Clothes are really important part of who we are and how we make the world see us. I read a book once that said that it is an armour that we put on us in order to protect us from everything that's outside, both physically and mentally. Of course, clothes keep us warm. That's something that clothes do. But also, they help us mentally to protect ourselves. Like if I have a big meeting or an important thing to do, I love to wear something that makes me feel powerful. So I know that I can go through it and be perceived as someone powerful.

Katherine Ann Byam  3:39  

It's interesting because you actually made an outfit for me that I wore to the biggest speaking event that I’ve ever spoken on. And I remember the top had wings. And I remember being on the stage thinking I'm flying in my wings. And I remember feeling this sense of incredible euphoria and comfort in what I was wearing, how I was appearing, and how I was commanding the stage. Even though like you know when you're in this kind of intense sort of situation and the nerves can overawe you. But I remember feeling completely confident. And I think that a lot of that was about how I felt about the clothes. It was also about the energy you put into making that piece of clothing for me. So that's such a big part of working with a designer to really fit you. 

Fanny Rousseau  4:31  

I really like to connect with people that I make good clothes for. Mostly when I do customs like the one I made for you. And I put a lot of good energy in the clothes that I make because for me making dresses is kind of therapeutic. So that's something that I learned about myself. This is what I like to do when I'm feeling down. And I try to make people feel as good as possible inside of my clothes because I tried to make everything good in me inside of them. And I had a few people tell me that the clothes that they bought from me were really like what they needed to go out on. So there's one lady who bought one of my sweatshirts. And it's really soft on the inside and maybe like a blanket. And she sent me a text, saying that she was feeling down because she had COVID. And she felt really depressed after that because she had a really hard time. And the first time that she went out was with my sweatshirt. And it toned down her anxiety because she had a lot of anxiety from going out and maybe getting COVID back or something like that. So it was really important for me that she told me that because it's exactly what I want. It's the same with your experience.

Katherine Ann Byam  5:59  

So which of the Sustainable Development Goals guide your business values.

Fanny Rousseau  6:04  

So I think I'm trying to be as human-friendly as possible, also planet-friendly like I don't have any bolts. So I make everything to order. Every fabric that I use is either organic cotton or organic hemp which I try to use as much as I can. I also use recycled polyester but I try to avoid it as much as I can. Because I don't think it's really good for the environment because they have small plastic particles that go in the washing machine and then in the water and everything. But that's something that I try to do. And then humanly, I try to make it as ethical as possible. I try to track every fabric that I can find and know as much as I can about where they come from down to the fiber. It's really hard to do that when you're a small company but I try to do it as much as I can. I'm very transparent about it. When I don't know, I say “I don't know.” Then I make everything myself so there's no overseas labor. I think that's what I have in the goals.

Katherine Ann Byam  7:22  

What challenges has the pandemic brought for small fashion shops such as yours, and how have you responded?

Fanny Rousseau  7:29  

So I started in February 2020, about two weeks before the first lockdown. I had a lot of fairs planned. I was invited to some sustainable or slow fashion events both in Belgium and France. Everything was almost planned for May, June, and July. I had a lot of these that were planned and did not happen due to the pandemic. And so that's something that did not help me grow in the beginning because I only had Instagram to grow my business. And that's not something that was really easy. So I decided to have a place to work at so people can come and see. And that's how I opened the shop in Brussels in September, and then the second lockdown happened so that's something else, then that's the side that affected the work mostly and money as well like everyone else. And then I felt really alone in my business because I was working alone. And I could not meet any other people that work alone, or even go to meetings with other female entrepreneurs or stuff like that. I know these meetings happen usually during the year. That was something that was kind of hard. So I need to find people that have the same kind of business journey in life. And that's how I found your group on Facebook.

Katherine Ann Byam  9:02  

What have been sort of your greatest moments in your business since you got started?

Fanny Rousseau  9:07  

I think overall feedback from people is my biggest achievement because that's really what I want to do. I want to make people happy. And then I also made a video I think in May about the relationship between mental health and fashion, something that we talked about a little bit and it was really about how designing, wearing, and choosing your clothes can affect your mental health, both from the designer point of view and the consumer point of view. And I have one lady coming to the shop after seeing this video. She told me that she never could find anything to fit her because she is really thin. She took her clothes to be tailored to her size. Because she saw my video and she felt super happy to have clothes that fit her. And she was so thankful to have seen my video about this because that's what made her feel happy. So that's good too and I think also being there still after the pandemic and still having my business growing even though everything was super hard, and still is! And I see that I'm growing even more. I think that's my biggest achievement. 

Katherine Ann Byam  10:36  

That's really wonderful. I just love for you to share your feedback on your experiences working with us in the Women in Sustainable Business group and in the Eco-Business Group Club and some of the things that you would recommend about the two communities. 

Fanny Rousseau  10:52  

I joined Women in Sustainable Businesses I think in January just at the beginning, and you were doing a little challenge. That was really fun. I really enjoyed doing this. And I think the community has grown a lot since then. But then it was really about talking together. And it was really nice. And in the Eco Business Growth Club, I met really really nice people from all over the world, mostly in the UK. And the content is really interesting. And I learned a lot. And the experts are always super interesting. I couldn't be happier about being in this group. Thank you.

Katherine Ann Byam  11:41  

What recommendations do you have to slow fashion brands getting started today?

Fanny Rousseau  11:45  

I'd say don't be afraid that there's a big community. Bigger than just being alone in business, join a community because we share the same values. Don't be afraid. It's scary but it's nice.

Katherine Ann Byam  12:02  

Where can my listeners find your products and your design-for-you services?

Fanny Rousseau  12:08  

So you can find my products on trousseau.net, my website, where everything is there. You can also send me an email. If you want any customization or any product that you have in mind, you can send me an email through the contact form on the website. And then you can also find me on Instagram @ftrousseau which is where I share a lot of pictures behind the scenes of what I do.

Katherine Ann Byam  12:37  

Perfect. Thanks so much money for joining us today. It's been a pleasure chatting with you. 

Fanny Rousseau  12:42  

Thank you for having me. 

Katherine Ann Byam  12:46  

This episode was brought to you today by the Eco business growth Club by Katherine Ann Byam and by the space where ideas launch, the Eco business Growth lub supports positive impact SMEs with coaching new health and community support toward achieving the impact and reach they set out to meet. You can find out more by connecting with where ideas launch on Instagram or following the hashtag where it is launched across all of your social media.

About this Episode

Polly Buckland sat on the client-side in a marketing manager role at BMW UK Ltd before founding what is now The Typeface Group (TFG) in 2010. She's an ideas person blending creativity and commercial awareness to ensure the delivery team at TFG do just that. The Typeface Group is on a mission to give ambitious businesses robust websites that not only help achieve growth but are carbon considerate.

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Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam  0:03  

Polly, welcome to Where Ideas Launch. 

Polly Buckland  0:54  

Hi Katherine!

Katherine Ann Byam  0:55  

What inspired you to make your marketing firm eco-friendly?

Polly Buckland  0:59  

In 2019-2020, we were working with a couple of businesses that were really heavily focused on zero carbon targets, primarily with regards to UK housing stock and smart homes. We were already working in that space. And then we met with Nancy Hyne from True Horizon and did our first environmental assessment for our own business. At that time, we were looking very internally at what we could do and our own responsibility as a business. At that point, we weren't really looking at what we could then offer to our customers. In early 2021, we did our B Corp assessment.

And alongside that, I was doing some research and stumbled across an article from Wholegrain Digital on digital carbon footprint; and subsequently bought the book by their founder, Tom Greenwood on Sustainable Web Design. And I think our eureka moment was as I was reading it. And I said to my co-founder, Natalie, we already do 90% of this. We're already there. Because we're following best practices for web builds, we optimise our websites from the ground up. And that is largely what best practice is for sustainable web design. So we committed this year to give all web builds that we produce for our customers a carbon calculation for their homepage, and actually an accessibility score. And what that does is it keeps us accountable. And it raises awareness with clients that might not necessarily have asked for that, they might not have even really computed that. But they were going to have a digital footprint anyway. So that's how this all began.

Katherine Ann Byam  2:34  

What elements of the whole design of eco-friendly service businesses are important for other service businesses to understand? I mean what things did you take into consideration from your B Corp to web design to make your business more eco-friendly?

Polly Buckland  2:50  

So I guess the one that ties both together is choosing suppliers that carefully fit within the B Corp assessment. There are quite a few questions that are tied to the suppliers that we use. And certainly from a website owner perspective - Who's going to host your website? Do their data centres run on renewable energy? It's a very, very quick and easy decision to make actually but it can have quite an impact. So look at your suppliers and look at your content. I think certainly with digital communications, previously sort of more was best for SEO, as well just get the traffic in by producing more and more and more content.

And I think that needs to be more considered. Now there needs to be more of an essentialist approach. So if you've still got blogs on your website announcing your Christmas party from three years ago, if someone stumbles on that there is going to be a carbon output and why it's not relevant. So I think having a clear down in your business of your blog post or your junk folder in your email or your Sent Items. Sort of clear everything down because if it's being stored is having an impact.

Katherine Ann Byam  3:59  

Yeah, that's so important. And I think a lot of people underestimate the actual size of this; and especially in this uber digital age that we're in right now. I mean, I have some email accounts that are overwhelmed with emails from marketers, etc. How can we better control it?

Polly Buckland   4:17  

You just need to schedule some time. I think you need to delegate within your businesses. So everyone needs to be personally responsible for their own inbox. There are also some nice little extensions, there's an extension on Google where if you're going to send an email that's less than three or four words, there'll be a pop-up and it'll go, “Do you really need to send that?” And I think making it part of your daily routine is quite important. I mean, there's no two ways about it. People need to shift how they're working. I spoke to a client recently who's producing content for their website. And she said, “I was thinking about four blogs a month.” And I said, “Well, why?” Like why you need to kind of push back and start questioning.

Well, if you've got only four things to say, it would be better to write one rich piece of content that 's gonna answer the questions of the people that landed on your site. And it's going to be more sort of searchable, more discoverable, because it's rich, rich content in line with Google's principle. It's going to be relevant to people that land on it. So it will be worth the output that it has. And it will make the business seem more authoritative as well. So it's like a more considered approach and a more essentialist approach to producing content, I guess.

Katherine Ann Byam  5:36  

How do we measure and track or footprint data? Are there really good websites, processes that we can use? Tell us about that journey?

Polly Buckland   5:45  

The answer is, it's really difficult. And again, all rates for me at the moment in terms of research that I'm doing and the authority within the industry lead back to Whole Grain Digital. They have produced a website carbon calculator, and what it does is it measures data transfer, energy intensity, the energy source, how the data centres are powered, the carbon intensity of the electricity, and the website traffic. And it's this engine where you put your URL into it, and it will come out with basically a performance percentage of your website and the carbon output. Then it will give you which is really nice, based on 10,000 visits a year, this is the equivalent of carbon that you're producing. So it makes it relatable.

Yeah, that's a single web page, there is nothing that I found that would give you a whole website carbon calculation, which is something that I'm in the early stages of trying to work on. But what people can do is read up on what the best practice is and employ it. I mean, I've always had a thing against stock imagery, I just think it doesn't really say much about the personality of your business if you're using stock imagery, but more so that image will have like images really, really slow down your page loading time, which in line with Google's core vital updates this year, is a key consideration that page load and content delivery. But it also is often the thing that has the most negative impact on the carbon output of that page. So even if you don't have a whole website, carbon calculation, you can absolutely be removing images that actually don't have much purpose on your website. It will make a difference. It's tricky to find the measure right now. But it will make a difference.

Katherine Ann Byam  7:36  

Yeah, that's really interesting. I think it's a lot of things that we think about, but we don't actively think about the impact we're having by being slow to react. And that's what's key. So from a B Corp perspective, what else do we need to be messaging, for example, on our website.

Polly Buckland   7:53  

I do think more and more people are looking for Corporate Social Responsibility statements. I do think that that is a consideration in both B2B and B2C buying. Now, I think I read a stat like 70-80% of people are now considering the values of a business before they purchase from them. I think it's important to also recognise that B Corp isn't just about the environment. It is about governance, your workers, community, and the environment and customers. So I think it is a more holistic measure of a business. So I would really recommend anyone pick up their phone, get on their laptop, go to the B Corp assessment and do it. It's no obligation, it's free to do and just see where you're coming out. The reason we went for B Corp (we've already spoken to Nancy about it) I sat on the sofa on a Friday night with a glass of wine and I did the B Corp assessment on my phone, and that was the beginning. Unless you start measuring, you can't improve. And I think that's a really important message. If you want to be more environmentally considerate, you need to find your baseline.

Katherine Ann Byam  9:11  

Tell me a little bit and I want to dig into something potentially controversial here. So just recently, we witnessed what's happened at BrewDog in terms of their treatment of employees or employees who are pushing back against some of the culture of the company about sort of manipulation, etc, that's been going on, or that the alleged has been going on, I should say. And there's been a question coming up around what B Corp's role is in ensuring that companies stick to what they've pledged in their assessments, etc. What are your thoughts on this and whether or not B Corps should respond?

Polly Buckland   9:49  

It's really tricky, isn't it? So when you're doing a B Corp assessment, you need 81 points to become accredited, which means you don't have to be perfect and you don't have to even answer every question. We've submitted our assessment at this point. So we haven't been assessed. So I can't speak in kind of firsthand experience as to what the assessment looks like and how deep they delve into your evidence and how you've answered the questions. I'm not sure it's for B Corp to respond. I don't think the fact that BrewDog is accredited yet not perfect reflects badly on B Corp. I think the message is very much working towards being better for your people, the environment and communities. It's definitely for BrewDog to address the assessment.

Certainly, the interrogation of the assessment and the production of evidence by the companies that have submitted could be more thorough, maybe.  Then I would imagine the price of being B Corp-accredited will rise because they've got to put the people behind it to do the additional check. Part of me thinks if a business is going to go through the time, energy and investment of becoming B Corp, they're going to go into that with kind of open hearts and full integrity. This could just be a case of the leadership team at BrewDog genuinely not knowing; and therein lies a wider problem for them. It's about making sure that you've got a constant flow of communication even if you're growing and ambitious and taking over your sector, you can't forget the small stuff. And we've been using a tool called OfficeVibe which is great because what it does is sends a pulse of random questions out to our team every two weeks. So even if we're busy, we're still getting that constant feedback. And then it will really flag if there's an issue. And of course, you need your employees to be really, really open and honest. Yeah, to get the best out of it.

Katherine Ann Byam  12:07  

It's an interesting discussion because... I don't know if you've seen "Seaspiracy," and some of these programs on Netflix where they really get into the accreditation bodies for their - let's call it "limited due diligence" around this stuff. And I think it's becoming quite a problem. Because even you know that there are a number of instances where accreditation bodies have failed to do that check. And I recognise your argument around the cost, right? Because yes, it becomes more expensive to accredit if you do have to do the work. But we people also need some kind of guarantee that this thing is reliable. Otherwise, why do it? And so I think this is going to be an interesting and continuing debate as we go forward.

Polly Buckland   12:56  

And I too just wonder if it's almost like the pulse that they need to be requesting of anyone that's assessed to do it quarterly - submit these three bits of evidence, and we'll do it at random. And if you don't submit it, then we suspend your accreditation because that can be automated to a degree. If B Corp chose to respond to it because I think it's the first big question mark, and I'm not sure it's a case of I'm not sure the answer is to just make this massive example of bloop for BrewDog, who is doing good as well. And I sort of skim-read the response that they seem to be taking responsibility.

Katherine Ann Byam  13:37  

It'll be interesting to see how it all evolves. I think this part of the sustainability stories, often overlooked. So we often talk about climates and the environment but we don't talk about decent work.

Polly Buckland   13:49  

100%. And I think there's that degree of greenwashing. Right. I was on a call recently and someone who is part of a wider group basically said, "Well, you can call it what you want but people really only care about the bottom line." And I thought, "Well, actually they don't. I've met a lot of people that really, really don't and they do take this holistic view of their business and their impact and doing good for the community. I think it would be really sad to just credit all the good work and positive energy that businesses put into their B Corp journey to at least write about cancelled culture. I don't I don't think we discredit all the good because it may be one question mark.

Katherine Ann Byam  14:35  

So I absolutely agree with you. What are you currently working on? That's going to probably change the game again for your business and for this whole idea of carbon neutrality.

Polly Buckland   14:47  

At the moment, I am in conversation with our web host who's an independent UK business. They've already got a pretty strong Corporate Social Responsibility policy themselves which is why we chose him as a supplier. They run their data centres on 100% renewable energy. But the reality is they don't have a measure at the moment for site-on-site energy usage. And I would really like to be achieving the fast carbon measure on the dashboard, on the back end of a website. I think that needs to be the norm.

From what I've seen, it doesn't exist at the moment that locally to us within three enterprises, I believe there's like an Environmental Innovation Fund. So I believe that there's potentially some funding there. I feel like I understand what the customers want and need and can help in communicating that and I'm trying to marry that up with the technical team at the web host. Hopefully, we can all come together and produce something that could be rolled out eventually to anyone with a website. I think people need to understand that their websites have a carbon output first, see that measure, and see how they can improve it. So that's what's in store for us as well as working with a number of clients on web builds.

Katherine Ann Byam  16:04  

How can people keep in touch with you or get involved with the work at The Typeface Group?

Polly Buckland   16:09  

So we're at the typeface group.co.uk. And I am pretty active on Twitter at my username is @typeface. See, all our contact details are on the website. We're always interested in being part of the conversation. Wonderful.

Katherine Ann Byam  16:25  

Thank you so much, Polly, for joining us today. I think this was a really enlightening session. And I do hope my listeners get something and take something away from this session or even get in touch with you. Thank you so much. 

Polly Buckland  16:36  

Thank you very much. 

Katherine Ann Byam  16:40  

This episode was brought to you today by the Eco Business Group Club by Katherine Ann Byam and by the space where ideas long the Eco Business Growth club supports positive impact SMEs with coaching new health, and community support toward achieving the impact and reach they set out to meet. You can find out more by connecting with where ideas launch on Instagram or following the hashtag where it is launched across all of your social media.

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Episode Transcript

Hello listeners! Apologies for this delay and halt in proceedings but sometimes life says no, you can’t have it all your way, and things come up that cause you to take a pause and a big step back.

Podcasts are eternal things, and someone listening to this episode years from now will wonder why they are hearing this, but What’s happened in Afghanistan has been a wake-up call for me, when I look at what lies ahead of us. It’s caused me to rethink a great many things, and that’s why I needed a break in producing new content and serving what you need.

I will record an interview with a friend who worked for the red cross in Kabul until it fell to the Taliban, and you will be able to find that interview on my Youtube channel, so for now, I won’t speak any more about that, but it’s still on my mind.

The events though have made this work that I’m doing take on greater importance, as I and all of us, need to do more to help others, and this podcast, my communities and my services are designed to do that.

This episode is about developing ideas, and it’s going to be split into 2 sections, to be covered in the next few weeks.

All right then. Let’s do this.

Lesson 1 for you today is this:

You develop business ideas to test them, not to launch them!

 This is one of the biggest mistakes entrepreneurs make and trust me I’ve experienced first-hand how costly these mistakes are.

In my view, this is going to be the most important section of this E-Book so listen up and pay attention!

What you are testing in the development phase is that your ideas and research correspond to market reality and meet not just the perceived needs but the real needs of your customers as well.

I recently read an excerpt from Dare to Lead by Brene Brown – which turned out to be a quote from another book Good to Great, and I want to mention it before we get into the details.

You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.”

At this point, let’s reflect on what we’ve done so far.

We know our mission, our skills, the jobs to be done by the customer. We’ve done some market research, and we’ve selected a few ideas based on our ikigai, the intersection of all the good news we got from the idea stage, as well as things that may not have been conclusive but are at least interesting enough to take forward.

Before you start testing, you need to know your “who”

Who are you selling to? Specifically? What are the characteristics of people who have this problem, or what are the conditions under which this problem is experienced?

Use your research results to understand:

1.     Ideal Client
2.     Niche
3.     Prototype and Test
4.     Go to Market Strategy.
5.     Supply Chain, Finance and Legal

Truth bomb: It will cost you far more to develop the wrong idea than it costs to start again and find a better idea. Development takes the input from your market research and aims to convert it into a mock-up of commercial reality.

Ideal Client

An Ideal client (IC) or an ideal client avatar (ICA), is the perfect customer for your specifically imagined product or service. They are the person whose dreams you want to fulfil, or whose nightmares you want to end.

They are the people you discovered in your market research that helped you tailor your idea, that your skills and talents along with product or service design are absolutely made for. They are excited out of their minds to use your product or service because it speaks directly to their problems.

Your work thrives when you are extremely specific, especially when you are getting started, and they have a specific set of problems, and or a specific set of characteristics. If you don’t yet have a track record, you are relying on both ideal client and niche to help you build your credibility.

Your ideal client can be:

1.      A previous version of you.
2.      A specific person you discovered during research.
3.     A specific friend or former colleague whose problems you always solve.
4.     A customer who bought from you in the past
5.     A Realistic re-creation from a series of experiences.

Consider capturing all the below information for your ideal client. Name your ideal client or avatar as you’re going to be talking to them a lot!

You can consider having up to 3 ideal clients. 

Ideal Client Example.

This is how I bring this to life, with an example of one of my ideal clients, who I call Nora.

Nora is in their own sustainably-minded business, which they run as a side gig. They have been in her start-up for less than a year and are struggling with adequate sales growth, although they are experiencing moderate sales.

They have reflected on their business, and they think they need to increase traffic to her store. They are thinking about investing in ads, but are not sure about the return on investment, and do not want to lose money/ cash flow which is in short supply. 

They have accumulated some knowledge, so are wary of sellers claiming more knowledge than they have. They would like a place to ask some questions and currently look toward large groups and communities.

She desires long-term to live off her business and backs herself to succeed, but her question is more around should they seek out help, or figure it out on her own, as they are resourceful and have gotten this far on her own. She wants to prove to herself and her family that she’s got this.

 Her independence is strong, but they also like the idea of a community. The problem of growth has been a persistent one these past months, and they are not clear whether this is seasonal, or how much covid has had an impact, and how the return to a new normal might affect her business. They believe that consistency is important but suspects a bit more is needed. 

Nora is a 28-year-old female living in Manchester UK.  they have a partner and dog. They are living together, but not yet married. They live in an apartment building, but they look forward to having a house soon. they believe in a minimalist lifestyle and has been a vegetarian since they turned 16. they like to go on backpacking trips with their partner in the Scottish or Welsh mountains on holidays. they read fiction and listens to a variety of podcasts. they and her partner use bike scooters and public transportation but they look forward to a campervan. 

They have a digital marketing role for an online shop, but on the side, they work on their own digital store. they use Etsy, Facebook, and Instagram shops. In her day job, they work mostly alone in a small team. they have a degree in Sociology. They’ve been in this job for 3 years, but they are looking forward to leaving it because it’s a lot of work in support of someone else’s dream.

She is a self-starter and taught herself much of what they know about marketing. they are headstrong passionate and cause-driven. they fear not being able to make the impact that they want or live the lifestyle they would like. they dream of financial independence and a minimalist and balanced lifestyle with the needs of the planet. 

She advocates for DEI (Diversity Equity and Inclusion), animal rights, reducing consumption. Her worst nightmare would be to work for someone else all her life. they have a positive outlook on the future and her generation's ability to make changes. 

She does all her spending online and tends to work on her side gig during the day and in the evenings. they collaborate with some other online traders already, but they want other sources of growth. they think while walking with the pets and listening to podcasts. they spend their free time reading, with friends and walking in the ocean. they are not as consistent as they would like but sometimes enjoys going for a run. 

She rewards herself with something fashionable and vintage. they sometimes spend time gaming online. 

My other ideal client has a burning desire, not a problem, and her name is Mia.

Mia is an educated professional woman who is ready to pivot and start a positive impact hybrid service and product-based business. they want to address a need they spotted in the market when they experienced this challenge 3 years ago with their youngest son. they want other mothers like her to have the choice, and not be so overwhelmed by the challenge they face. they struggled through this on their own, but today they have accumulated significant knowledge that they are compelled to share because existing solutions are incomplete and ineffective.

Mia has been feeling quite jaded in her corporate life for a long time, and they want a change both for her family and for her own psychological wellbeing. 

It is important to Mia that anything they do can replace or surpass her corporate income as they need to secure her family’s future. It scares her to not do something about the problem they see, but it also scares her that they will take this risk at her age and fail, and never be able to return to the rank and status they left behind when they leaped. 

She has become used to quality in education and training, coaching, and mentoring and service delivery. they are willing to invest in the right offer that suits what they are trying to do and will pay a premium for things done for her that will save her time.  

She has 2 routes to getting started, accept a redundancy package, and start fresh, or keep working and start a side gig. they go for the redundancy route.

She has many options to choose from when getting started, and they prefer to look for established and trusted brands. Yet they do not offer her sufficient clarity, as they are not close enough to the marketplace to give the best advice. they may be spending time together in the following places.

Incubator or accelerator.

The regional chamber of commerce.

Networking events for start-ups.

YouTube.

Sharing ideas with trusted friends and mentors.

Digital courses with established universities

Sampling peer to peer networks

Grants for green start-ups.

Sampling podcasts and Facebook Groups

Time and cash flow run rate will be sources of concern for her. Also, whether the business can really replace her income.

 Mia has seen the membership but is not confident due to its low price. they may be more interested in an interim service, a bridge between the knowledge they have and the knowledge they need. they also may be interested in recruiting a VA (Virtual Assistant) but does not know how to go about that decision.

 At 42 years old, living in Winchester UK and enjoying suburban life, they have doubts. they are not as confident as they once were. Her marriage though does give her some assurance as her husband continues to hold a corporate job. 

They also have the kids, a boy, and a girl, and managing family time, family needs, the dog is another full-time job. they drive the kids, now teenagers and takes care of holiday bookings and logistics and every other administrative activity of the household. they have a master's in human resources and has become disillusioned with the corporate world. They are proud and wants to succeed. they will sacrifice income if her family remains safe. they listen and reads Brene Brown and Simon Sinek and other traditional entrepreneurs.

They are level-headed and thinks before they leap.. they are interested in helping others, protecting the environment, and safeguarding a future for her children. 

Their shopping habits are a mix of offline and online. they work early in the morning, and late at night on business. they use baths and runs to clear her mind, and sometimes a glass of wine. they minimize her meat consumption and pays attention to the details of her pantry.

Summary – Ideal Client

•       Who is he/she or they based on demographic research?
•       What do they desire most?
•       What do they fear most?
•       What do they value? What is important?
•       Where do they spend time offline and online?

3 Key Takeaways

•       Name and create a model for your ideal client avatar. A real person is always the easiest to visualise and test!
•       Identify his/her personality profile so you can learn how she/he makes decisions.
•       Choose a niche based on the characteristics of your Ideal Client.

Niche

A niche is a core set of characteristics about a group of your ideal clients, that you focus your marketing on. You utilise the set of features that are best suited to focussing your marketing campaigns, and where you can identify useful research, trends, and other competitors serving your niche.

It is a broader concept than the Ideal client but works hand in hand with your ideal client to give you a narrower focus.

•       The specific problems you want to solve for your clients.
•       The types of solutions your clients are looking for.
•       Or some specific demographic such as location.

Let us look at the example of Mia.

To create a niche for my audience of “Mias’”, I can look at the field that they currently work in, and the type of companies they work for, and what they typically read. I can build my marketing plans based on reaching more of that audience.

The niche Mia fits is:

 Corporate women over 40 working in operations in FTSE 500 or S&P 500 businesses.

Once you understand your niche, you need to revalidate your research on:

•       Who else serves your niche?
•       Is it narrow enough? If you have many big players serving your niche, you may need to narrow It further.
•       Where does this niche spend their time, and at what time of day?
•       How best to engage them?

In the case of my niche for Mia, I may want to narrow it a bit further.

The new niche can be:

 over 40 women, working in FTSE 500 and or S&P 500 businesses based in the UK & Ireland.

Those 2 modifiers narrow the scope and focus of my marketing content significantly and increases the likelihood that when they receive information from me, they know it is for them.

Let us take a slight detour into branding, to show you how this works.

Let’s say that significance and trust are core values for Mia. On my branding colour wheel, I want to choose colours that match this, while preserving what they want also in her personal life. I may want to choose some core colours in my wheel such as:

•       Purple – Creative, Curative, Protective, Thoughtful, Wise
•       Green – Calm, Soothing, reassurance
•       Black – Sophistication, power, formality.

So perhaps if these were values, those colours would appeal more on my feed.

If you get the niche, ideal client and messaging right, you do not need a huge audience, you can operate with direct outreach, offering a done with you or done for you service (more on business models later).

When Elon Musk started Tesla alongside his collaborators, he first introduced the Roadster, which was a luxury electric vehicle that he sold at hefty prices, to very wealthy people. They were wooed by both the design, the responsibility of the brand, and the niche marketing efforts. The company then used the revenue earned to develop more economic models he would sell to completely new audiences. With each successive release of his brand Tesla, he is able to create more affordable versions, which interestingly keeps the value high for older models in the resale market as well.

Today, Tesla’s have more than just a cult following. People are willing to pay in advance for the release of new models, all while being responsible in their business ethics. There are 17 separate ways that you can address the sustainability challenge we face in the world. His products are not affordable for the average adult, but it does cover responsible production and consumption and climate change as well as smarter homes and cities.

They thought out a strategy to serve multiple groups while scaling the business sustainably.

Key Points

•       Understanding how your ideal client, your brand and your niche come together, is essential groundwork for your strategy setting.
•       Do not just assume your ideal client is you or a previous version of you; actually, document their characteristics and look at which characteristics make for a suitable niche.
•       Do not just assume that your ideal client is interested in the environment; as in the case of tesla, the cars are also high performing and aesthetically beautiful, even elegant. I know many Tesla users of higher end models that had no interest in the sustainable side of the brand, or it was not the factor that made up their minds.

Summary - Niche

•       Ask yourself which niche within your ideal client’s characteristics seems underserved? Under-loved, and in need of a specific targeted solution?
•       What are the attributes and jobs to be done in that niche?
•       How accessible are they? Who is serving them today?
•       How can you brand them and your ideas?

3 Key Takeaways

•       The riches are in the niches.
•       Brand with your Niche and ICA in mind
•       You can brand your business and your product differently yet be conscious of the alignment of values and driving mission.

Prototype and Test

A desktop exercise for testing is useful and helps to guide the initial design. You use this in your initial market research, composing your idea, and validating some basic assumptions. Yet if you want to develop superior user experiences and really design a product or service that your ideal client considers reliable and worth the time and effort, live testing in an environment which is as natural as possible makes an enormous difference to your long-term product development and marketing spend.

Product Prototypes

The building or designing a physical prototype of a new or improved product is vital. Getting this product in the hands of your ideal client is also crucial. Allow the consumer to take this product home and use it the way they use it. Without instructions (except safety and health instructions of course) to learn what comes of it.

Service Prototypes

Developing a beta version that is designed to break is the way to do service testing. You want to facilitate your ideal audience to tell you all that they think and rank the importance of the improvements and why to give you a steer on where to focus your efforts.

3 ways to facilitate testing.

•       Focus Groups – This is a controlled and therefore unnatural environment, and although it produces results, it should be supported by other forms of testing.
•       Test Market – Choosing a small market to deploy your first tests, in, and providing them with incentives to provide feedback.
•       Ethnography studies – observing in a natural environment how people use your product or service.

What to look for when testing

•       Define your audience.
•       Attract your audience.
•       Control for the right ICA
•       Test your copy – and your understanding of your ICA.
•       Control for competition trying to learn more about your product.
•       Document what you want to learn from the test.
•       Create space for accidental discovery/ observation.
•       Get critical data on pricing and positioning.
•       Have clear metrics in mind.
•       Examine causal relationships.
•       Observe the indirect communication.
•       Decide strategically on which questions in your survey need to be open-ended or closed.

 Summary: Development – Prototype and MVP (Minimum Viable Product)

This is all about designing the user experience.

You need a minimum viable product or wireframe.

Gives an initial assessment of the viability of the product.

3 Key takeaways

This is a key step in reducing the cost of your learning.

Used correctly it can become a rich source of data.

Expand your reach beyond friends and family.

About this Episode

Lakshmi Malhotra is the founder of Resham Dor. Her vision is to revive dying handloom clusters and establish artisans as custodians of their craft across India. She is currently working on the revival of Kharad rugs. This is a diminishing craft practiced by only two families in Gudhrat India.

In this episode, we explore the artisanal Journey in India, and how she intends to use Blockchain to help revive artisanal craft as luxury items.

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Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam  0:03  

Lakshmi Malhotra is the founder of Resham Dor. Her vision is to revive dying handloom clusters and establish artisans as custodians of that craft across India. She's currently working on the revival of Kharad rugs. This is a diminishing craft practice by only two families in the Gujarat region of India. Lakshmi, it's such a pleasure to have you. Welcome to Where Ideas Launch.

Lakshmi Malhotra  0:50  

Thanks for the opportunity to be a part of this podcast.

Katherine Ann Byam  0:54  

What is Kharad really and why are you so passionate about saving this type of skill?

Lakshmi Malhotra  1:01  

Actually it is quite an interesting story, Katherine and the word Kharad actually comes from a Sindhi word, which is a dialect in that part of the region, which means rock. And the artisan community originally settled in Sindh, which is now in Pakistan. That's where the word came from. So the Kharad rugs were traditionally made out of camel wool and goat hair. And these were woven on a pit loom. And these were basically used by the nomadic community when they would travel all across to keep them warm. That's why Kharad was very simple in its soul, black and white monochrome designs, which was undyed sheep wool and camel wool. And that's where Kharad came from. What happened post migration was that the community moved to a place called Quran, which is the last village between India's border with Pakistan. And after that, considering the craft is very labour-intensive, it was quite expensive as well. And the local market actually was not very interested in the craft. And slowly the families that used to do this started to dwindle down. And now there are only two families.

Katherine Ann Byam  2:24  

Tell us a bit about your background and how you found this course.

Lakshmi Malhotra  2:30  

I have worked for the corporate for about two decades. For about 20 years, I've worked as an IT professional in a lot of agencies all across the world. However, hand loom is an area which is something very close to my heart. As I was growing up, one of my favourite pastimes was to basically visit these handloom fairs that we had in a city where we would have artisans and weavers coming from all across India, and I would buy handloom fabric from them, get it embroidered or do some embellishments on it, and get it stitched.

I think my love affair with hand looms began there. And initially, it was something that was very personal to me, wherein I would buy hand looms for my own personal use. But as I started going to these handloom fairs very regularly, the weavers got to know me as a person who loves hand looms. And they started sharing their personal stories with me and they talked about the challenges that they're facing with people not wanting to buy handmade, wanting to buy the cheapest stuff, and of them moving away from their original designs to create something which people would buy.

I think I started relating to their stories in terms of the challenges that they have and how difficult it is for them to survive. So about a few years back, I started an initiative again, under the name of Resham Dor to basically create awareness about the hand looms and crafts that we have all across the world. But last year during the pandemic, I realised that I need to basically work full time if I really want to make a difference at the ground level.

That's how I moved into Resham Dor full time. Now in terms of how I found Kharad, I remember I was talking to a craft lover who was also from Gujarat. I was brought up in Ahmadabad which is in Gujarat, and she was talking about Kharad considering I'm from Gujarat, I know all the arts and crafts that come in from Gujarat. But Kharad is something that I was not aware about at all. And it was very surprising that I did not know about this craft and about two years back, I started researching about Kharad because I felt that as a handloom lover, or as a craft lover, and as well as coming from Gujarat, I should know about all the crafts from Gujarat.

When I started researching about these rugs a couple of years back, I was fascinated by how beautiful these rugs were, how they were made, the story of how it is rooted into sustainability, right starting from local people to using natural dyes to basically weaving on a pit loom. I was really very fascinated with the weaves and the beauty of it. And I remember searching for the master craftsman who creates these rugs. I reached out to him and he actually shared a story in terms of how there were 10 families who used to practice this craft 10 years back, and now they've moved away to other professions, because the demand for this rug was lessened. And for these two families to also survive, it's so difficult.

Katherine Ann Byam  6:05  

You know, when I talk to people about this topic of sustainability, we often have this debate about, "Is sustainability something that sits outside or does it sit throughout the making of the thing?" And this is in the ethos of everything that the rug is from the point of design up to the point of finishing and ready for sale? What are your thoughts on the opportunities and the sort of hidden wealth in this area of hand loomed skill? Because I think, as we talk about sustainability, the next side of the story is about the human side of it - about these skills and about the fact that we have sort of built a world that trivialised and made irrelevant almost these real important craft skills in exchange for things that are cheap and create waste.

Lakshmi Malhotra  6:54  

As far as how the loom and handicraft industry in India goes, we have a very rich heritage of craft. And I think if I look at the techniques or the way the craft and handloom is being made in India, it is rooted in sustainability. What has happened post the pandemic or in the last few years is that sustainability has become at the core. Customers have become more conscious about the production process and about how sustainable a garment is. Most of the crafts, not only in India, but all across the world were rooted in sustainability because the means were limited at that time. And people used to take everything from whatever was available in the ecosystem to make things for their daily needs. And I think if we go back to that, we will be able to ensure that we are sustainable. So I see a lot of opportunities.

Katherine Ann Byam  7:53  

So we know that blockchain technology is being used now in the art world. What are your thoughts on how this can benefit the artisans?

Lakshmi Malhotra  8:02  

So I think there has been a lot of research on blockchain. And initially though blockchain started from the financial industry and focused around bitcoins and all that, now they are looking at how blockchain could be applied to other industries as well. Now, when I look at blockchain and based upon considering that I come from a technology background, I'm always looking at ways how technology can be used to make lives better, and especially with handloom being an area of which which is an area of interest, I did a detailed study on how blockchain could help the handloom and craft industry.

I think there are a few challenges that the craft industry is facing all across the world. One is product authentication. There are a lot of copies available in the market and the consumer never even knows how, whether a product is coming from an authentic source or whether it is really coming from a craftsman as the brand claims. The other thing is intellectual property protection. If we look at artisan communities all across the world, I believe that the art and the craft is the cultural intellectual property of the community. And if anybody tries to use that intellectual property, then there has to be credit that is given to the artisans.

There is no way of doing that right now. And there are a lot of brands which basically just use a particular art without giving any credit or compensation to the artisans. And the third thing is that there are a lot of traditional crafts that are dying today, and along with that the knowledge of the traditional techniques is getting lost. So there is no standard database for knowledge protection. And I think that blockchain can really be helpful here.

The reason being that blockchain is a technology which is immutable. Immutable means anything that goes into the database cannot be changed by anybody else. It can basically change the face of the craft industry or even luxury goods as well. Because at every stage in the supply chain, if there is information that goes into the blockchain, which says where the raw material came from, who were the people who dyed it, with what material, who were the artisans who weaved it, who packaged it, and how did it reach the consumer, and if all of that is available to the consumer through a scan of a QR code, it will become very powerful.

So I think blockchain as we go forward, there are a lot of pilots that are happening all across the world in terms of how blockchain can be used for the fashion industry, and especially for the handloom industry. And I personally believe that it can change the face of the industry, if we are able to deploy it as we go forward. 

Katherine Ann Byam  11:07  

Absolutely.. So what's next for Resham Dor? And how can my listeners support you,

Lakshmi Malhotra  11:11  

We are just a startup. We are a very new company right now. We just started The Kharad Revival Project, six months back. So our focus for this year is that currently there are two families that are practising this craft. By the end of the year, if we can make it to five, if we can get three more families back into the craft by creating the right market linkages and demand, that would be wonderful.

And a couple of two years down the line, we basically make this artisan community self sustainable, so that they can ensure that the Kharad craft is available for generations to come. In terms of how the listeners can support, they could support by creating awareness about this craft and know more about this craft. They could also talk about how sustainable this craft is. And last but not the least, if the listeners can help us by buying these rugs, these are heirlooms, and these are a beautiful legacy that you can keep in your home. So if the listeners can help by supporting by buying a rug that would really be helpful.

Katherine Ann Byam  12:29  

And what advice would you give to someone who's getting started in an area of preserving history and preserving craft and skills? What would you tell them?

Lakshmi Malhotra  12:40  

Though I'm very new in the entrepreneurship world, I will share my experience in the past few months. I think the first thing that I learned when I moved into starting my own company was when we work in the corporate world, everything is very structured, right? There are well-defined processes. However, when you move into entrepreneurship, the first thing is you have to do everything on your own now. So it was a difficult task for me. But what I learned in the last six months is that don't hesitate to reach out. Don't hesitate to ask for help.

As a new business, there are a lot of times when people don't respond to you. You get a lot of refusals. I remember that when I reached out to a few influencers to talk about what we are doing and if they could talk about my brand, even after a lot of follow ups, I did not get a response. But what I realised is if your brand has the right ethics, then it will turn around you just have to continue to follow up and now one of the recent successes that I had was that I reached out to a lady who is a textile revivalist and she is a part of the royal family, again, from Gujarat.

I reached out to her and I told her about Resham Dor. And I was not sure whether she would respond to me or whether she would be happy to speak about Resham Dor. She is very active on Instagram and a lot of social media and surprisingly, she was graceful enough to actually see that, "Oh, wow, you're doing such a wonderful thing. And I am happy to talk about Resham Dor.” What is needed is persistence, continuous follow-up, and especially when you are running a new business. 

Katherine Ann Byam  14:34  

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. So right there. 

Katherine Ann Byam  14:40  

Thank you so much for sharing this important message with us. I think Resham door is doing an admirable piece of work. I think that the future of this type of skill is in the luxury market. And we need to recognise that. I mean this is as precious as the artists are, you know, and when you're at a stage where only a couple of families can do something, this is something special. And this is something that you really want to preserve. So thank you so much for coming to share that story with us and my listeners will be able to access all of your information on the show notes. So thanks so much for coming, Lakshmi. 

About this Episode

How do you come up with an idea?

From the poets, science-fiction writers, anthropologist, scientists, explorers of space and time, to the futurists, and the real experiences of those on the fringe, ideas come from a variety of sources.

We explore how to calibrate your ideas following the 5 guides below:

Show Highlights

• Mission
• Skills
• Jobs to be Done.
• Market Research
• Idea selection

Speaker Introduction

Katherine Ann Byam is a consultant and strategic partner to leaders on sustainability, resilience and digital transformation.

Subscribe to Where Ideas Launch

Sponsored by - The Eco Business Growth Club and Women in Sustainable Business

Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam  0:00  

How do you come up with an idea?

Creativity is one of the greatest human gifts from the poets, the authors of science fiction, to the anthropologists, scientists, explorers of space and time, to the futurist, quantitative and qualitative, to the real experiences of those on the fringes. Ideas can come from anywhere.

The way the brain connects events, words, sound, smell, patterns, and senses, we don't even understand yet to spark something new is an incredible marvel that we can learn to better exploit. It starts with interest, call it a healthy level of curiosity, and it goes further, when you add to it the following key elements to grow your possibilities.

These key elements that I will talk about in the rest of this episode are the mission, skills, jobs to be done, market research, and idea selection at the end. The mission directs your actions. What is your purpose and driving goal around starting your sustainable green business?

Entrepreneurs in this space are often guided by two elements - wanting to solve a problem of social importance while bringing in some income to sustain their efforts or wanting to solve a problem of environmental significance. This purpose can be articulated into a clear mission statement or an open question.

Sparking Ideas and Missions - The Role of Questions in shaping the future.

Questions tend to spark great missions, especially questions that are difficult to solve but an important objective on this scene. When we get into sustainable business we often prioritize passion and purpose over profit. And this is great, however, you will not be able to sustain this business without some commercial element.

So you need to make your mindset work across all three things, which is purpose, profits, and the planet. Turn your questions into a tangible purpose for your business. Start broad, thinking big about what you want to accomplish, and then add constraints such as the environmental context, the skills that you have perhaps, depending on how you want to start this business and how you want to grow it, and your freedom, or ease of conducting that business within the environment that you currently work in.

You need to have a clear intention toward the profit motive as  even for purpose-led businesses, this is going to be valuable. Some examples of companies with inspiring mission statements that I've pulled together for you. Patagonia - "We are in business to save our whole planet." I thought this really powerful, and they've been leaders in this sort of big business to sustainable business space for quite some time. Microsoft - "To empower every person and every organization on the planet to achieve more." I know that Microsoft could be in that debatable space with tech companies. However, I do like the mission statement and I think it's quite powerful.

Tesla - " Accelerating the world's transition to sustainable energy with electric cars, solar, and integrated renewable energy solutions for homes and businesses." That's great. It's not as easy to target a company like Tesla for being a greenwasher because they're really in this space. They're really changing the game on how we use renewable energy today. So that's a powerful company who we might want to argue also spends a lot of resources on space travels.

I think we need to nuance a lot of the stuff that's happening in the world around us because I don't think anything is black and white anymore. There's a lot more complexity to our decision-making, and you will meet more complexity in your decision-making as well as you build your business. Some other mission statements that I'd like to play out here for you to think about how you interpret them. Amazon - "We strive to offer our customers the lowest possible prices, the best available selection, and the utmost convenience." Now that's an interesting mission statement given where we are in the world. You can think about how that statement resonates with you or not.

Coca-Cola - "To refresh the world in mind, body and spirit, to inspire moments of optimism and happiness to our brands and actions, and to create value and make a difference." That's another, let's say mission statement that I'm not sure who it's speaking to. I'm not sure it is speaking to me.  Marriott. "To enhance the lives of our customers by creating an enabling of unsurpassed vacation and leisure experiences."

Now my inspiration- I take inspiration from the UN 17 Sustainable Development Goals - number eight, Decent work and economic growth is my sweet spot. My question is the question that keeps me awake at night, is how do I go about creating this decent work and economic growth principle for business owners, new business owners as well as people who are struggling to get work and jobs in developing countries?

How do I contextualize this idea of decent work and economic growth to earn a decent living from my efforts without breaching irrevocably any of the other goals? And the part of that goal of SDG 8 that gives the problem is economic growth of itself because we need to reimagine what growth means and I think that that's the crux of the thing. How can I reimagine what growth really means because you can't have infinite growth on a finite planet.

Part of this question or part of the answer to this question that plays around in my mind is how I embrace technology as a tool and not as a weapon of social disruption and these are two complicated things that I know will take me many years to solve. Each business stream I operate today considers my overarching mission. And your mission can be derived from any source. So think about what your question or problem is.

Think about your purpose, and then narrow your focus, as far as possible, and find the right skill to market fit. So let's move on to skills. You do not need to start the business based solely on your skills. But to survive and thrive in your business, it's valuable to have skills that can be leveraged by the business you form. So for example, you can start the data insights company if you're not a data scientist but your strongest skill is communication, because that skill will help you with the toughest part of any business which is sales.

The Skills that make you successful as an entrepreneur - hint: Lean on Your Strengths.

This brings me to the topic of universal skills. So there are some types of skills that are transferable to any type of business you want to start. And three of these I want to mention right off the bat - finance, research, and social writing or business writing. These skills can serve you in any type of challenge and are particularly useful for green businesses as the mode of outreach to clients often lacks a big budget, and far more targeted in niche and influence irrelevant for example. So take an inventory of all the skills that you have alongside the mission and problems that you want to solve.

What skills and strengths will motivate you to keep going when things get tough, and this is an important question to answer yourself. The journey of an entrepreneur can be harsh for sure and challenging at points during your journey. And at your lowest moments you will be asking yourself these questions about why, why am I doing this. So answer them in advance. The inventory of your skills can come from multiple sources. It can come from your education. It can come from passion that you have, topics that you read regularly about. It can come from jobs that you've done in the past.

It can come from any sorts of nature, natural abilities that you have, rare problem solving skills that you have, challenges that you've overcome in the past that you can help others to overcome, hobbies that you have, old traditions that perhaps have been passed down in your family that you haven't called upon in a long time. Your mission is so important, but also needs to be constrained by your skill if it is that you are a solopreneur. If you can gain access to the skills you need to achieve your mission, then you have the power to go further into building your dreams even if you're not particularly skilled in the area you want to develop as a business. Beyond the mission and skill, we get into the jobs to be done by the customer.

The role of Understanding the customer Journey in designing a powerful business Idea.

So let's think about the customer journey. This is really essential to this idea of the jobs to be done. If you are designing something to be more sustainable, chances are that the idea you have already has a market and a customer most likely, except that existing solutions may be damaging some or all the sustainable goals. Your product or service still has to do what the customer wants done so you have to be clear in your understanding of that before you make design changes. So let me give you an example. And this one, it depends on the type of service you want to provide or a product you want to provide.

As an example, a customer is researching holidays, and you are a holiday planner for eco business or eco travel. What is the customer looking for, is it rest and relaxation? Is it a chance to escape with the kids? Is it an adventure? Is it an experience? Is it luxury? Is it hot or cold? How is it sustainable? So, you can choose to address any one of these jobs or multiple ones but you need to have a clear understanding of the problem that you want to have solved.

So the average customer and the sustainable customer can potentially have a lot in common. To design the optimal product or service you need to ask these questions. How does the customer use this product or service today? How are they interacting with it? How did their families interact with it? How many times are they going to use it? What happens in the afterlife? Where are they typically purchasing this.?What are the people commenting on the reviews and what are the business models that currently work for the sale of that product today, as some examples.

How to solve your customers Problems

All of these questions will feed the design of the product or service. Another interesting approach is to ask yourself what level of quality matters to the customer. Using the jobs-to-be-done approach you potentially expand your market by addressing the needs of the consumers, while still achieving your sustainable goals. Let us take the customer who is holidaying with kids - they have a specific window to execute the holiday and things are likely to be booked up quickly, so they have an interest in planning their holiday early. Your window for wooing that customer will perhaps be months before the next vacation.

And because they're traveling with kids, they may have safety concerns, cost and budget concerns, the level of additional effort they will have in luggage, etc. so proposing a cycle holiday may not be the right solution. By contrast, someone into adventure tourism and perhaps travel during peak seasons, may make more spur-of-the-moment decisions, but will be more open to roughing it so can be more easily captivated by eco tourist spots. Understanding the customer journey to a decision or choice is key in being successful at converting that customer.

So, the jobs to be done -  think about what's happening before they use your item or service, while they use your item or service, and after they use your item or service. Next, explore the problems they face in that journey map.

Why Every Business Needs Detailed Market Research.

Now we move to the penultimate section which is market research. Each of these steps build on the others so market research is really about how you get to know exactly what jobs that customer needs to get done. You do this through research.

And you can do research in multiple different ways, so you can understand if there's a demand for what you are aiming to create. You can understand the audience and try to define and shape that audience, collect data to identify a niche, know the competition, understand the business models that are operating, understand the price and service range, understand the white space, the gaps in the service or product experiences that you may be able to turn into an opportunity.

There are many different approaches to doing research. Some free ones to use is Google Keyword search so you can sign up for the account and you can start doing some keyword search before you have to pay for the service in terms of the advertising spend at least. You can use Amazon product reviews. You can use Facebook groups. You can use hashtag searches, digital magazines, the free versions of Answer The Public, Quora, focus groups, or any other ways of asking existing customers  (if you have them) or asking people in your communities. You can run surveys and quizzes. You can look at some paid options which is looking at Listen Notes which is one of the podcasts usage platforms. There's Buzzsumo. There's Appsumo that you can use as well. What you really wanna do is capture as much useful information as you can about the customer that you're looking at.

There are many other sources - you can use your local chamber of commerce, you can use some statistics consolidation sites, etc. There are many ways to leverage research. The point of doing all of these things, and understanding your mission, understanding your skills in detail, getting sorted on the jobs to be done, and getting your market research right is that you could make a selection of what ideas you want to take forward. And it's possible that you want to take forward multiple ideas but I would recommend not to do too many at the same time.

Finding your business Ikigai - or identifying great ideas for testing.

Yes, you need to have some variety in your business goals but when you're first getting started, you want to go through that process of developing one idea into reality before you move into others. So with your idea selection process, you really have to go with that sweet spot, as they call it the icky guy, so look at the intersection of those things where it meets with your strengths, where it meets with a really strong need in the market, where it addresses a social good, and where it's able to pay you as well. So, look at all those things as much as you can to come up with that short list of great ideas that you want to take forward. Be generous at the beginning of this process to make sure that you capture as much as possible, but then be ruthless and brutal with yourself at the end of the process so that you focus on only a maximum of two or three ideas that you may eventually take forward. Thanks for listening.

About this Episode

Carbon Kapture is a social enterprise start-up with a big mission: to regenerate our oceans and fight climate change. We remove CO2 by growing seaweed, then create carbon-negative products and services.

Kelp-us-save-the-planet-a-thon is a virtual hackathon hosted by Carbon Kapture. It is free to join and takes place once a quarter.

Join Howard Gunstock and me as we discuss the journey to build a viable planet based business.

Subscribe to Where Ideas Launch

Episode Transcript

Katherine Ann Byam  0:03  

Today, we have a previous guest, Howard Gunstock, who is back to talk to us about the journey he's been on with Carbon Kapture. Howard, welcome to the show. Once again, thank you, thank you very much for having me on the show. It's really good to be here. And Howard, I know that we kicked something off when we had this podcast back in October, but you were just beginning to launch some of your products like your Ocean Care Bonds, etc. You were just getting loud on social media really starting to pick up the followers. And since we've had that episode, it's actually been the second most downloaded episode. You are about six people away from being the top downloaded episode, but you are gaining on the leader. So tell us about your journey since the last podcast my friend.

Howard Gunstock  1:11  

It's really interesting. When we started talking about this Carbon Kapture was an embryonic idea that it's something that we're thinking about doing. And as you said, when we launched the social media on our socials back in October, and that was a strategic move that was designed to build up our portfolio of potential customers and our base. And there was a reason why I wanted a strategic move: to become effective kelp farmers. We're going to need to form alliances with businesses that already do kelp farming. Yeah, because I am not your typical kelp farmer. And what we want to try to do is to have these alliances and I had a conversation with a Kelp farmer a few months ago, a European player.

And actually, the reason why we did our stuff in October and November was purely part of this conversation. And he said, and he was saying to me, how can you develop all these farms? How are you going to do all these things and say, well, we're going to have joint ventures and partnerships. He said, Well, why did you need to do this thing with Carbon Kapture? And I said, Okay, well, this was it. If I came to you, six, six months ago and said, Hey, I want to have a kelp farm, you would say to me, "No, I'm not going to give you any of my licence, why would I half my profit?". And effectively, that's where he would be doing. But then if I come to you and say, “Hey, I've got the Carbon Kapture, this is my brand, these are the things these are the products that I'm going to do.

These are the people that follow us.” I then got some leverage to have a conversation with you about being able to help build on your business, rather than remove some quality to your business. And that's really what I want to do. We want to take a collaborative approach. And to do that we've taken an approach that we're going to build our brand. First, we're going to gain variance to what we're doing, we're gonna get a groundswell of support, and then move it forward. And that was a really powerful piece for us to try to achieve. Just the fact that I had that conversation with that kelp farmer was kind of like a seminal moment. It's like I've achieved a little bit of what I wanted to do and being a disruptor in the aquaculture industry.

So that was fascinating. The other thing that we've been doing is testing out some of our hypotheses. So I think you briefly mentioned or alluded to Ocean Care Bonds. So that's really the first milestone and that came about from the original idea of Carbon Kapture, which was, "are people prepared to put a higher power on the regenerative power of nature? Are they prepared to invest in ocean-based and nature-based solutions?" So we were meant to have Ocean Care Bonds in the beginning of December, I massively underestimated how difficult it is to mobilise a part-time team.

The only full-time person in the team is me. And my business partner, who does an incredible (big shout out to Dave Walker Nix) job of managing two jobs, managing his actual job and then his Carbon Kapture job. So we tested out Ocean Care Bonds back at the end of December. So it was meant to be for Christmas, but we managed to get it out on the 27th. So we missed the Christmas bump. And what we were doing were in effect selling advanced sales on kelp. We haven't been involved in the water yet and to see if people are prepared to put a higher price on this thing. And also thanks to the wonderful team at Alpha Geeks who put together a brilliant, brilliant digital campaign for us and also Katie Nuttall from Studio Nimble, amazing content that she produced, but we sold out of our Ocean Care Bonds in 20 days. So it was an advanced sale, not in the water, really trying to capture the imagination for 20 days. I'm like okay, that's pretty cool. But then what I really wanted to find out was, what button had I pressed?

It was we had this great campaign and we thought we knew what we're doing. But actually, in real terms, we didn't know what button we pressed to our customers. So I set about to all the customers that said, they were okay with us contacting them for marketing purposes, we contacted them. And what was really interesting was the feedback that we got from the customers. And the first thing was that people have really bored of trees. I just didn't realise that was a thing. But people are really bored of investing in trees.

 The second thing that was really interesting was the people really did want to buy into something that was nature-based, the regenerative power of nature, and people really care for the ocean, like super, super care for the ocean and its health. I think there is a growing consensus of understanding that actually, as a species we are derived from the ocean that we came from, we came from apes and gyms. But before that, the evolutionary processes we came from the water, and being able to sort of know that all life came from from the oceans means we really should be taking more care of the ocean. And the final marker was, people wanted practical ways to engage in the topic “climate change,” as a topic is really abstract.

But if you take away the trees, it's a really abstract topic, you can ask people what it is. And there really is a massive swing and understanding. And in part, that's our job at Carbon Kapture to help people understand and interpret the problem in practical real terms, but actually having tangible products and services, practical ways that you can engage makes people feel like they're contributing to solving the problem. And we all know why I say we all know, I think it's i think i think it's a known fact, that groundswell people power is the reason why change happens. And I can hold those markers to sit on more, and Marcus Rashford. Clearly directive leadership, a clear call to action was is all that it takes. And actually, when you do that, effectively, and you've got your marketing on point, you can have some real meaningful impact.

Katherine Ann Byam  7:42  

That's amazing. I just let you talk, I didn't want to interrupt you. Because I think it's been such a fascinating journey that you've been on. I want to get into some of the challenges now because I know that you have built this groundswell of support that you talk about. There is a movement behind you. There's definitely energy behind the brand of Carbon Kapture. And it's exciting, like people are excited to hear about you. Tell me about some of the challenges that you're currently facing in the scaling journey of what you're trying to build.

Howard Gunstock  8:11  

Yeah. So there are numerous challenges. One, I think this is the one that everyone has, getting, getting the investment. And so we've taken a really long time to get our stuff together. Aside from the ocean care of bonds, which was relatively clear, the challenge is, when you're talking about creating carbon negative products and services, and ecosystem services, that's even more abstract for some people than climate change. I mean, at least it's a word that's banded around.

And when you're right at the edge of all the cutting edge of climate change activities, what you tend to find is that your thinking is a little bit more nuanced to the vast majority of the population. So you've got to dial it back. So being able to describe our products and services clearly in an unambiguous way has been singly the biggest challenge that I've had to have ever had today. Because not only are you describing it, you're also then having to quantify it financially. And that is something that goes into your P&L, and that's what your investors want to know about. And you got to be able to talk to it, in a sense of what does this actually mean in practical terms. So that's been a massive challenge for the company.

One that I'm delighted to say, we are now over Touch Wood. We have our pitch deck together, we have our P&L together, we know what we're talking about with our products and services. And in the last two weeks, we've started to actually announce some of our partnerships and alliances. There's two or three more to come. I'm extremely grateful, by the way, for your support as well with our hackathon which I'm sure we'll come to in a bit. But it's been a really great opportunity for us to test out our thinking. I mean, it's not been easy. And certainly, there's a lot of money in the swear jar. There's a massive amount that's gonna go to charity. We've got that.. And it's been a pleasure to work with my team to be fair, because they've challenged me appropriately to be able to get to where we are.

So now we have, we have our sponsorship packages, which is really a great little thing. We have our consumer products that we're going to be producing when we get to the end of when we get to having biomass, we're going to have our corporate offerings as well for that. And we're mainly operating in animal feed fertiliser, so stimulants, and biochar, which are fantastic, but the idea of being able to sponsor our activities is the thing that really will be to help organisations aligned to the strategy of ocean health and the regenerative power of nature.

Katherine Ann Byam  11:09  

It's interesting because I currently participate and volunteer for a steering group with the Hampshire Chamber around Netzero. And typically, the conversation doesn't come to this regenerative side. There's a lot of talk about cleaner energy, and there's a lot of talk about what we are doing to build back better to reduce the use of toxic things and plastics, etc. But there's not a lot of talk about cleaning up what we've already put into the atmosphere, which is essentially where Carbon Kapture has positioned itself.

Howard Gunstock  11:42  

Yeah, we are all the Wombles of aquaculture. We'll begin to throw me clean cleaning up the everyday things that people leave behind. There's a lot of words, buzz words, and that seems to come along. So first of regenerative, all it means is it's the next stage from sustaining what we've got. So everyone has a sustainability project. And what's really become apparent when you're at this when I'm at my side of it, I'm not talking about any other perspective. But I'm just saying from my side, sustaining what we've got is only good if everyone participates in sustaining what we've got. In effect, sustainability, in its current form, is like communism. It works in theory. But unless everyone's on board and does exactly the same thing, then what you're going to get is some sustainability having more power than others sustainability and this piece that says that the bigger players will only sustain what is essential, rather than what they're trying to do.

And then there'll be other people who will try to be more sustainable and become more righteous and pious and all that sort of stuff. That's not where we're at. We're on about being able to, in effect, we climate positive, good for the environment and regenerative. The regenerative power of nature is in nature. We have perennials, everything. It will turn around, there'll be a new new season, a new summer, a new harvest, a new crop, and we can play with it. I mean, we can genuinely geoengineer that, to our advantage, it seems so mind numbingly obvious, like soul crushing the obvious that we've had this power all along, and no one's gone, "Oh, that's something we could do." or if they have, it's only been a passing thought, "Why is no one else taking this and running with it so fast?" And I do understand what we're doing, how effective we are as a company.

As we start off, we're going to be like trying to move water in a wheelbarrow. We know that some of the CO2 is going to go over the side, here, there, and everywhere. Got that 100%. But as we refine our skills and capabilities, we'll become more and more effective at removing bad elements from one location and moving it for the betterment of another and that's what it's about balance. You know, as a species, we don't value nature because we've not been trained or programmed or the story isn't about that. The story is about the value of money, wealth, and capitalism, and consumerism, yeah, consumerism.

So then what you’ve got to be able to do is then train the mind into two parts. One is how I become more of a thoughtful person and two how do I then show that thoughtfulness in terms of our planet that's led (not exclusively), and that's a sweeping statement, by those who have the most influence and those who had the most influence or those with money. So those with money need to get on board with this idea. Because otherwise , this is not my thinking, but in 10 years time, if we don't fix this really clearly, in 10 years time, the “in” gift is going to be a personal breathing apparatus.

That's the gift at Christmas. We don't get our stuff together right now, you know, Darth Vader. You won't know that you're walking into it into a carbon dioxide pocket, you won't know you're walking into a hydrogen pocket or, or a nitrogen pocket, or a methane pocket, it will just be there. There's no Batman, funny coloured smoke stuff going on, it will be the same colours you're looking at now, it's completely trashed completely invisible. And we will know that's really what we've been facing for the past 10 years, you're going to be talking about complete breakdown of all those chains and when those ecosystems break down, they don't come back. So we have to do this now. What sustainably should be is about doing the right thing.

And what it shows is we're not about doing more than the right thing. Businesses need to do more than the right thing, because they haven't. Any industry hasn't done the right thing for a really long time in a few. Half a few have put the Planet in their heart and they've been the outliers. And thanks to them, change is possible. But the vast majority need to do more than the bare minimum.  The bare minimum isn't one there. It's got to be a lot.

Katherine Ann Byam  16:57  

So I want to move us now to fixing some of the challenges that you have. So I know that you have just built this energy behind the hackathon that's coming up. I want you to share with my audience about the hackathon, and how they can get involved.

Howard Gunstock  17:15  

Absolutely, thank you. Yes. So it's really one of the one of the really beautiful things about Carbon Kapture and the way that we've positioned ourselves and the way that we've had so many graduates, postgraduates, PhD students, just literally give us the academic research in my inbox. I have got something like 100- 150 years worth of academic insight. It's amazing. And I'm massively grateful to those people for giving me their abstracts. Please don't give me any more info in the abstract. I don't have the brain capacity to handle it. But yeah, anyway, it's been brilliant, it's really helped shape some of our thinking of our products and services.

So we're massively grateful. And we understand that part of the reason that someone was giving us that was in the hope that maybe we could give them a job. And we're a small business, we don't have a lot of money. So at the moment, we're not in that position. But that feeling of someone paying it forward to us is something that I feel is really important to our business. It feels like the right thing. If you're studying Ecology, or Biology or Sustainability or related disciplines, you're doing it because you have a passion for it. It would be like a crime that you study a STEM degree, and then you go into a completely unrelated discipline in business or something else. And all that knowledge that you've got isn't wasted, but it's not channelled into a way that will benefit us as a society. And that's something that's got me in this whole lockdown and COVID-19 thing where opportunities for graduates has become more and more sparse, has played on my mind massively, and played on the team's mind.

So the idea of the hackathon is that it actually solves a myriad of things. So we have some great ways of solving our business, our business problems. And these are ideas that have been thought of by a bunch of middle-aged people, men, women, you know exactly that have sold some things. And okay, we've got a handful. But what we don't have is we don't have all the ideas that come out from the people who are right at the cutting edge. So with our hackathon, we'll solve a couple of business-related problems that will either build on what we've already got, or give us a completely new idea, or potentially give us some stuff for the parking lot later on. Some great ideas are going to come out. But what we really want to do is use that as a platform for good.

So we're going to film it, we're going to stream it, and we're going to sandwich some adverts in it. And we've got some, we've got some amazing sponsors. So big shout out to you for offering to be a sponsor, thank you very much. Also to }getabstract, Jabra,  The Applied Negative Energy Centre, and also avery + brown, who have done an amazing job on sort of helping our, our marketing. Thank you very, very, very much to all of our wonderful sponsors of our hackathon. So the idea is that we will film this and then we're gonna put people into groups of five, and we'll advertise it to potential employers.

So if you're looking to hire a graduate in a Sustainability, Ecology, Biology,  Marine Engineering, field, or any other related discipline, we're going to have 25 of the best graduates that we can find. And we're gonna let them have an informal assessment centre, where we give them the problem, they showcase their soft skills, their communication skills, their presentation skills, and problem solving skills. And you can look at it for free, we're not charging anything for it. And we do an introductory service to the rights of some of those graduates, on behalf of the employer that's also non cost as in, we're not going to charge anything for that, because we want those companies that are looking at them to look at us as a company. We are also offering, you know, those people that probably can be looking at possibly looking potential sponsorship for some of our activities.

But we're also using the hackathon, to advertise to investors as well, people who may want to co-own a farm or invest in Carbon Kapture. And we're going to try and put on this show, this show of ideas and good stuff from people right at the cutting edge. You know, we're not talking about the policy and procedure business. We're talking about practical applications to help people engage with climate change because what would be more powerful than helping a load of students who have a vested interest or ex-students have a vested interest in sustainability getting themselves meaningful jobs in industries that value their skill set. That is such a powerful thing to be able to offer. And I think we'll get some stuff out of that as well. But more importantly, we get jobs to pay it forward. And that really, that fits in our ethical compass really well.

Katherine Ann Byam  22:28  

Now. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Howard. So just remind everyone again, when your hackathon starts, and how they can sign up.

Howard Gunstock  22:35  

The application window is still open. I found a lot of really great graduates. But I'd like some more, please. Employers, you can all register, by the way. So you can find this at carbonkapture.org/hackathon. If you're not an employer, graduate investor or sponsor, you can still watch it. There's an 

Eventbrite ticket link for that. It's free. If you are, then you just register an interest at the relevant Google Doc that we've got. We've got Google Doc for graduates, we've got Google docs for employers, we've got Google docs for investors to sort of help people and we'll send you an invite and a link to the event and a hold the date and all that sort of stuff. And then we're just going to stream it on LinkedIn live. We're going to stream it on Facebook and YouTube. And we're just gonna have a lot of fun with it. So yeah. Perfect.

Katherine Ann Byam  23:35  

Thank you so much for joining the show.

Howard Gunstock  23:37  

Thank you so much for having me. Have a wonderful day. Cheers.